Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 12, 2024, 08:53:54 AMDid you even listen to Mike?   The man learned football from the greats- Al Davis, Bill Walsh, and Bill Belichick.  While you may not have liked Mike's well-informed critics of the Giants, Mike was a great source of learning about the NFL at a very high level.  Outside of the great John Madden, I can't think of another person I learned more about football from than Mike Lombardi   

I've seen enough of him from your posts so, no, I don't listen to him.

Learning is great; applying knowledge is better. He never struck me as the type that could apply what he learned.

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:05:03 AMI've seen enough of him from your posts so, no, I don't listen to him.

Learning is great; applying knowledge is better. He never struck me as the type that could apply what he learned.

His performance as a GM is evidence of your assertion, Tim. 

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:05:03 AMI've seen enough of him from your posts so, no, I don't listen to him.

Learning is great; applying knowledge is better. He never struck me as the type that could apply what he learned.

Quote from: kingm56 on December 12, 2024, 10:12:13 AMHis performance as a GM is evidence of your assertion, Tim. 

It seems Bill Belichick doesn't share your view.

Still, as the old saying goes, those who can't do, teach. 

I will say that if I criticize someone's work, I do actually read or listen to the work.  Otherwise, what exactly are you really basing your criticism on?

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 12, 2024, 09:54:31 AMI am starting to hear people talking about college football as just another professional league and perhaps direct competition with the NFL.

It will be interesting to see if the relationship changes between the NFL and college.  Right now, the NFL treats colleges as partners who are their farm system to develop talent.  With NIL and GMs and paid players, will the NFL start to see colleges as both a farm system and as rivals.

Rivals, I don't think so.  As there is still an eligibility component to college.  Only get 5 years, 18-23 years olds, etc.  What will start to happen more and more is the stud player who comes from a poor family will not be in as much of a rush to enter the NFL in order to take care of his family. 

Quote from: coggs on December 12, 2024, 10:36:59 AMRivals, I don't think so.  As there is still an eligibility component to college.  Only get 5 years, 18-23 years olds, etc.  What will start to happen more and more is the stud player who comes from a poor family will not be in as much of a rush to enter the NFL in order to take care of his family. 

There is nothing to say (especially in light of the Covid extension) that colleges wouldn't consider creating longer eligibility.

Although I think the real competition is in broadcasting/streaming.   Right now, the NFL and colleges cooperate, and it's rare for the NFL and college to compete head-to-head for viewership.   It will be interesting to see how long that gentleman's agreement not to compete lasts under the pressure of both entities to increase revenue in a market that does have limitations.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 12, 2024, 10:28:25 AMIt seems Bill Belichick doesn't share your view.

Still, as the old saying goes, those who can't do, teach. 

I will say that if I criticize someone's work, I do actually read or listen to the work.  Otherwise, what exactly are you really basing your criticism on?

I don't need Bill or you or anyone else to share my view, Rich.

I'm one of one. I create my own drum beat and I march to it. I don't need outside people to validate me. I don't need other people to agree with me. I'm fine if they do and I'm fine if they don't. I own my views.

Quoteactually read or listen to the work.  Otherwise, what exactly are you really basing your criticism on?

Maybe you missed it...

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:05:03 AMI've seen enough of him from your posts so, no, I don't listen to him.

Learning is great; applying knowledge is better. He never struck me as the type that could apply what he learned.

Quote from: coggs on December 12, 2024, 10:36:59 AMRivals, I don't think so.  As there is still an eligibility component to college.  Only get 5 years, 18-23 years olds, etc.  What will start to happen more and more is the stud player who comes from a poor family will not be in as much of a rush to enter the NFL in order to take care of his family. 

That's a great point.

Do you think that will increase the quality of draft prospects going to the NFL?

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:44:57 AMI don't need Bill or you or anyone else to share my view, Rich.

I'm one of one. I create my own drum beat and I march to it. I don't need outside people to validate me. I don't need other people to agree with me. I'm fine if they do and I'm fine if they don't. I own my views.

Maybe you missed it...

Tim,

While I try to accurately recount points Mike raises that would be of interest to Giants' fans, I am still a second hand source.  Your view of Mike and his work is distorted by my limitations.

Still, I guess it's really a moot point, as Mike will no longer be podcasting and sharing his great wealth of NFL and football knowledge. 

I would still highly recommend his first book- Gridiron Genius: A Master Class in Building Teams and Winning at the Highest Level

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:46:43 AMThat's a great point.

Do you think that will increase the quality of draft prospects going to the NFL?

I think it could, provided they stay healthy. In theory, with some more play time, they should become more prepared to make the leap instead of rushing to the pros. It also gives scouts and FOs more tape and data for their decision making.

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:46:43 AMThat's a great point.

Do you think that will increase the quality of draft prospects going to the NFL?

With more and more players staying in college longer, the prospects coming out are more "NFL ready" compared to the 20-year-olds, who were previously drafted and who had only a couple of college seasons under their belt.  It should also, in theory, help scouts because there will be more tape and, thanks to the transfer portal, they will often have tape in different situations.

The downside for the NFL is that the older prospects mean they will be working for fewer years in the NFL, which essentially downgrades the NFL's overall talent pool.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 12, 2024, 10:51:34 AMTim,

While I try to accurately recount points Mike raises that would be of interest to Giants' fans, I am still a second hand source.  Your view of Mike and his work is distorted by my limitations.

Still, I guess it's really a moot point, as Mike will no longer be podcasting and sharing his great wealth of NFL and football knowledge. 

I would still highly recommend his first book- Gridiron Genius: A Master Class in Building Teams and Winning at the Highest Level

I appreciate the recommendation, sincerely.

When I was in the Air Force, we had to take promotion tests for advancement. The first test was on general Air Force knowledge that all potential promotees had to take. The second test was career field-specific: lab techs took the same specialty test, legal techs took the same test, IT specialists took the same test, etc.

I saw too many people get promoted who only had the book knowledge but not the practical, hands-on proficiency. For me as an IT network admin, I had a huge problem with someone being promoted over me who knew what the manual said but couldn't configure a network switch to save his life.

Knowledge is great, but to me, it's limited if it can't be applied. Don't tell me how it works... show me.

To me, Lombardi is one of those guys. He can criticize a GM but when he had the opportunity to be one, he couldn't do it. That's why his takes fall on my deaf ears.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 12, 2024, 10:54:48 AMWith more and more players staying in college longer, the prospects coming out are more "NFL ready" compared to the 20-year-olds, who were previously drafted and who had only a couple of college seasons under their belt.  It should also, in theory, help scouts because there will be more tape and, thanks to the transfer portal, they will often have tape in different situations.

The downside for the NFL is that the older prospects mean they will be working for fewer years in the NFL, which essentially downgrades the NFL's overall talent pool.

I'm reminded of something you said some time ago, specifically about the offensive linemen not being as good these days. It was visible and makes sense.

I do get the point about older rookies, but focusing on linemen, they typically have longer careers than other positions outside of kickers/punters.

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 11:01:48 AMI'm reminded of something you said some time ago, specifically about the offensive linemen not being as good these days. It was visible and makes sense.

I do get the point about older rookies, but focusing on linemen, they typically have longer careers than other positions outside of kickers/punters.

Offensive linemen talent levels could, in theory, get better.

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 10:58:52 AMI appreciate the recommendation, sincerely.

When I was in the Air Force, we had to take promotion tests for advancement. The first test was on general Air Force knowledge that all potential promotees had to take. The second test was career field-specific: lab techs took the same specialty test, legal techs took the same test, IT specialists took the same test, etc.

I saw too many people get promoted who only had the book knowledge but not the practical, hands-on proficiency. For me as an IT network admin, I had a huge problem with someone being promoted over me who knew what the manual said but couldn't configure a network switch to save his life.

Knowledge is great, but to me, it's limited if it can't be applied. Don't tell me how it works... show me.

To me, Lombardi is one of those guys. He can criticize a GM but when he had the opportunity to be one, he couldn't do it. That's why his takes fall on my deaf ears.

Tim,

In my years on the squad, I encountered something similar.  We had one senior officer who was very knowledgeable and a great teacher.  He knew the material, and he could share his experiences, and his classes were very valuable.  However, on a tough call, he didn't keep his coolest head and often focused on the wrong issues.  So, he wasn't the best officer in the field.   Just because he couldn't translate what he taught didn't negate the value of what he taught.

I think it's similar with Mike Lombardi.  I think there is something in the man's makeup that has prevented him from enjoying a level of success that matches his knowledge of the game.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 12, 2024, 11:26:06 AMOffensive linemen talent levels could, in theory, get better.
Tim,

In my years on the squad, I encountered something similar.  We had one senior officer who was very knowledgeable and a great teacher.  He knew the material, and he could share his experiences, and his classes were very valuable.  However, on a tough call, he didn't keep his coolest head and often focused on the wrong issues.  So, he wasn't the best officer in the field.   Just because he couldn't translate what he taught didn't negate the value of what he taught.

I think it's similar with Mike Lombardi.  I think there is something in the man's makeup that has prevented him from enjoying a level of success that matches his knowledge of the game.

I agree that it doesn't devalue the knowledge.

My issue with Lombardi is the criticism of those doing the job, not his knowledge. He, of all people, should know from having had the position and not been successful at it, how difficult it is. He didn't do anything in his career that affords him the position to criticize someone else. That's just my take and why I don't hold his views in any regard.

Quote from: T200 on December 12, 2024, 11:32:15 AMI agree that it doesn't devalue the knowledge.

My issue with Lombardi is the criticism of those doing the job, not his knowledge. He, of all people, should know from having had the position and not been successful at it, how difficult it is. He didn't do anything in his career that affords him the position to criticize someone else. That's just my take and why I don't hold his views in any regard.

Tim,

As a long-time listener, I can say there are many in the NFL who are on the receiving end of effusive praise by Mike.   He isn't just some gadfly picking at everyone's faults and limitations.  I will say most of the guys who have been the target of Mike's criticisms haven't exactly gone on to have great success. 

I think one of the more interesting criticisms was of Doug Peterson.  Mike was not a fan, and when Doug went on to win a Super Bowl with the Eagles, Mike had to eat a lot of crow.     Yet, after that Super Bowl win, the limitations that Mike pointed to eventually proved to be true.  He was fired from the Eagles and now likely will be fired from the Jags.

I suspect the reason you see Mike as mostly just a critic is that you hear his commentary on the Giants, which is mostly negative.  Yet, in light of the last decade plus of futility, who can say he was wrong?