Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 18, 2024, 11:55:34 AMSo to summarize:

Schoen and Daboll go into 2024 with Daniel Jones at QB and no real backup... Can't have a backup that's better than the starter or there will be a mutiny REAL fast.

They would've won in week 1 if not for Daniel Jones and were powerless to scheme around him... Yep, they win that game if either Ward or Sanders were under center.

The season fell apart because of Daniel Jones and it had nothing to do with Schoen and Daboll... Daniel Jones and injuries.

After cutting Jones, with no contingency plan, and with everyone else going on IR, it's no longer possible for Schoen and Daboll to field a competitive team... They are not fielding a competitive team on purpose because it's the only way they can get a real QB on a rookie contract to win with.

Also, last season the team stunk... Again, Jones got them started on the wrong foot, then injuries derailed them. As tends to happen around here.

The second half of 2022, the team stunk... The 2nd half of 2022 is what the whole season was SUPPOSED to look like as they were just cutting everybody to try and reset the cap mess Gettleman left.  If it had, they'd be good right now.  They magically won all those one score games and screwed up everything.

Everyone they drafted on the offensive line is a bust... Piss poor drafting of the OL is on them, solid FA on the OL this past offseason is also on them.  The OL was actually playing very well this season before...again...injuries.

Spent a ton of draft capital on the secondary but can't get interceptions or passes defended... Definitely on them if these guys don't develop but Phillips/Nubin seem to be keepers and even Banks has flashed at times though not much this season


Okay, now it all makes sense. Everything went to xxxx, but nothing is their fault. Of course we should trust Schoen and Daboll to draft and develop a young franchise QB.

Look, it's fine for fans to root for the 1st overall draft pick. It's not okay for a GM and coach to execute on that wish. And it's not okay to be powerless within the circumstances you find yourself. We need leaders, not guys who can do well if everything is made easy for them.

So why is it ok for fans to know a 2-15 season is what they need but not ok for the team to understand that's what they need?  Don't you want them to do what's best for the team?  It's kind of funny, if they do get fired after this, the new regime gets to pick a brand new QB with a fairly built roster around it and is likely to perform pretty well almost out of the gate.  But then are they geniuses that won against all odds, or were they brought in at exactly the right time of the rebuild?

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 18, 2024, 12:09:03 PMSo why is it ok for fans to know a 2-15 season is what they need but not ok for the team to understand that's what they need?  Don't you want them to do what's best for the team?  It's kind of funny, if they do get fired after this, the new regime gets to pick a brand new QB with a fairly built roster around it and is likely to perform pretty well almost out of the gate.  But then are they geniuses that won against all odds, or were they brought in at exactly the right time of the rebuild?

That's how sports is supposed to work. You don't get rewarded for losing on purpose. You get replaced.

All the excuse making for years didn't make Daniel Jones a more successful QB and it won't make Schoen and Daboll more successful in their role.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 18, 2024, 12:12:58 PMThat's how sports is supposed to work. You don't get rewarded for losing on purpose. You get replaced.

All the excuse making for years didn't make Daniel Jones a more successful QB and it won't make Schoen and Daboll more successful in their role.

But what if it works.  If they go 2-15, draft Sanders or Ward, and that guy turns in a Jayden Daniels type rookie season that leads the Giants to 9 wins or so and a wild card playoff berth, are you really going to care about the last 5 games of this season being non-competitive?  I know I won't.  I'll erase that from my memory in 3 seconds.

I really do not understand why people want to win these last few games, and I also do not understand why they expect the last few games to be much different than the last 13.

It is what it is

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 18, 2024, 12:25:47 PMBut what if it works.  If they go 2-15, draft Sanders or Ward, and that guy turns in a Jayden Daniels type rookie season that leads the Giants to 9 wins or so and a wild card playoff berth, are you really going to care about the last 5 games of this season being non-competitive?  I know I won't.  I'll erase that from my memory in 3 seconds.

I would never trust a person who loses on purpose. People like that will always let you down when the stakes are highest. And that's to say nothing of their incompetence.

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 18, 2024, 12:25:47 PMBut what if it works.  If they go 2-15, draft Sanders or Ward, and that guy turns in a Jayden Daniels type rookie season that leads the Giants to 9 wins or so and a wild card playoff berth, are you really going to care about the last 5 games of this season being non-competitive?  I know I won't.  I'll erase that from my memory in 3 seconds.

Very true.  Anyone still complaining about 2003 and how that season went?  Fassell was fired, but he had been there 7 years.  Accorsi was not fired.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 18, 2024, 12:28:45 PMI would never trust a person who loses on purpose. People like that will always let you down when the stakes are highest. And that's to say nothing of their incompetence.

So if the Giants finish 4-13 instead of 2-15 would you feel better about keeping Daboll and/or Schoen?  What if they had finished 7-10?  Because to me if they do that this year, they're probably doing that again next year and the year after that.  The only way to really jump start improvement is to bottom out.  Is the goal to win a bunch of meaningless games or win a super bowl.  Because the fastest route to a Super Bowl doesn't include firing the GM/Head Coach every 2 years but does include drafting a good QB and maximizing his rookie contract years.

Lol, Fassell was fired after 7 years. No mention of bringing the team to the Super Bowl 3 years earlier? Coughlin was fired 4 years after winning his second Super Bowl. What exactly has Daboll done to earn a 4th season? Oh right, he's supposedly losing on purpose.

Bring back Schoen as well. He strategically blew the drafts in 2022 and 2023 all so he could position his head coach to lose on purpose in 2024. This is obviously an excellent process.

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 18, 2024, 12:48:44 PMSo if the Giants finish 4-13 instead of 2-15 would you feel better about keeping Daboll and/or Schoen?  What if they had finished 7-10?  Because to me if they do that this year, they're probably doing that again next year and the year after that.  The only way to really jump start improvement is to bottom out.  Is the goal to win a bunch of meaningless games or win a super bowl.  Because the fastest route to a Super Bowl doesn't include firing the GM/Head Coach every 2 years but does include drafting a good QB and maximizing his rookie contract years.

Which examples of a HC and GM conspiring for 3 years to rid the organization of an incompetent QB and secure the 1st overall pick, then going on to achieve success are you thinking of?

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 18, 2024, 12:54:06 PMWhich examples of a HC and GM conspiring for 3 years to rid the organization of an incompetent QB and secure the 1st overall pick, then going on to achieve success are you thinking of?

I don't think there was some conspiracy.  I think the plan was to move on, they magically won too many games in 2022 for them to go through with the plan in the eyes of their boss, so they tried to win again and failed in 2023, so 2024 becomes what 2022 was supposed to be and just reset the whole thing.  Only this time they nailed the 2024 draft so they have a lot of good pieces to build with.  Whether it's Daboll/Schoen finishing the job or the next group.

Quote from: Gmo11 on December 18, 2024, 12:25:47 PMBut what if it works.  If they go 2-15, draft Sanders or Ward, and that guy turns in a Jayden Daniels type rookie season that leads the Giants to 9 wins or so and a wild card playoff berth, are you really going to care about the last 5 games of this season being non-competitive?  I know I won't.  I'll erase that from my memory in 3 seconds.

That's a lot of what ifs.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on December 18, 2024, 11:55:34 AMSo to summarize:

Schoen and Daboll go into 2024 with Daniel Jones at QB and no real backup... NOT THEIR FAULT

They would've won in week 1 if not for Daniel Jones and were powerless to scheme around him... NOT THEIR FAULT

The season fell apart because of Daniel Jones and it had nothing to do with Schoen and Daboll... NOT THEIR FAULT

After cutting Jones, with no contingency plan, and with everyone else going on IR, it's no longer possible for Schoen and Daboll to field a competitive team... NOT THEIR FAULT

Also, last season the team stunk... NOT THEIR FAULT

The second half of 2022, the team stunk... NOT THEIR FAULT

Everyone they drafted on the offensive line is a bust... NOT THEIR FAULT

Spent a ton of draft capital on the secondary but can't get interceptions or passes defended... NOT THEIR FAULT

Okay, now it all makes sense. Everything went to xxxx, but nothing is their fault. Of course we should trust Schoen and Daboll to draft and develop a young franchise QB.

Look, it's fine for fans to root for the 1st overall draft pick. It's not okay for a GM and coach to execute on that wish. And it's not okay to be powerless within the circumstances you find yourself. We need leaders, not guys who can do well if everything is made easy for them.

This sounds like you got the script from Pat Hanlon himself   

    

Quote from: coggs on December 18, 2024, 12:42:48 PMVery true.  Anyone still complaining about 2003 and how that season went?  Fassell was fired, but he had been there 7 years.  Accorsi was not fired.

Not a good comparison at all. The Giants went 4-12 in 2003 but had gone to the playoffs the year before and the SB 3 seasons prior. The Giants still had an excellent defense but Fassell had lost the locker room and made several bad decisions running the offense. The team was 4-4 and lost their last 8. Accorsi was going to retire anyway and hand things off to Jerry Reese, which he did two years later once Eli had settled in. Schoen isn't anywhere near that. 

I'm sorry but some of you have lost the plot. Your job as a GM is not to get to get the #1 pick in the draft every year. That's actually a sign that you did a terrible job and should probably be fired. And the job of the HC is never to lose on purpose, are you insane? That's the job of the fan, maybe, to root for a loss at the end of the season, and even then no fan should enjoy it. Once coaches start losing on purpose, you can shut down professional sports. I swear the NFL model has driven some fans absolutely bonkers to the point where they don't prize their team winning at all, just having a great off-season. Also, trust me, even by your logic, the Giants aren't losing on purpose now. Daboll is coaching for his job and the players are trying. They are just really, really bad. And that falls on three guys: Mara, Daboll, and Schoen. Unfortunately, only two of those guys can be fired.

Quote from: BlueMoshik on December 18, 2024, 01:26:12 PMI'm sorry but some of you have lost the plot. Your job as a GM is not to get to get the #1 pick in the draft every year. That's actually a sign that you did a terrible job and should probably be fired. And the job of the HC is never to lose on purpose, are you insane? That's the job of the fan, maybe, to root for a loss at the end of the season, and even then no fan should enjoy it. Once coaches start losing on purpose, you can shut down professional sports. I swear the NFL model has driven some fans absolutely bonkers to the point where they don't prize their team winning at all, just having a great off-season. Also, trust me, even by your logic, the Giants aren't losing on purpose now. Daboll is coaching for his job and the players are trying. They are just really, really bad. And that falls on three guys: Mara, Daboll, and Schoen. Unfortunately, only two of those guys can be fired.

You said it better than I could. People wanting to give them a mulligan for the previous 3 years is wild.