Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Painter on December 19, 2024, 07:27:18 PMCertainly not. They were NOT Drafting a QB last year, so let's not start diminishing what was clearly an above-average-graded 1 through 6 Draft this year.

Round 1, No.  6  Malik Nabers- WR, LSU
Round 2, No.  47  Tyler Nubin-  S, Minnesota
Round 3, No.  70  Dru Phillips- CB, Kentucky
Round 4, No. 107  Theo Johnson- TE, Penn State
Round 5, No. 166  Tyrone Tracy- RB, Purdue
Round 6, No. 183  Darius Muasau-LB, UCLA

Now, with ample cap space and a lot more in 2026, they will add a vet QB as bridge/backup to either Sanders or Ward in the Draft along with an essentially 1st Round graded OT and a couple of top-50/top-100 graded players at CB and WR2 and then maybe a DT and another OL, etc.

So, let's look forward and throttle back on the backside whining. Hmm? 

Cheers!

If we draft Sanders or Ward I really hope we don't waste cap space on a bridge QB .... Unless it's someone who is top half in the league ..... if it's another Jones level QB or even just slightly better that is a waste of cap space

Quote from: LennG on December 19, 2024, 06:19:59 PMLooking back, and playing Thursday morning QB, was drafting Nabors a mistake? Is he just another in a line of shiny hood ornaments when e need the motor is a much bigger way.

I know the story back then, give Jones someone who can be a legit #1 WR  and he will respond. He didn't and we pay the price, so again knowing what we know now, who might we have drafted instead, or stay with Nabors?

Lenn: IMO, using your reasoning, drafting ANY player at ANY position last year can be viewed as a mistake.

A fatal combination of injuries and general lack of talent/depth is on display this year.

No ONE player, even Patrick Mahomes (for example) could have polished this particular turd.

Bob

https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1870932520574890104

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 22, 2024, 03:34:42 PMLenn: IMO, using your reasoning, drafting ANY player at ANY position last year can be viewed as a mistake.

A fatal combination of injuries and general lack of talent/depth is on display this year.

No ONE player, even Patrick Mahomes (for example) could have polished this particular turd.

Bob

Bob

Maybe so. But I think some have overlooked my meaning. I did not mean that Nabors isn't a special talent, he most certainly is. BUT, isn't that putting the cart before the horse?
Look what some of the QBs that we passed on are doing right now. If we had to do it over again, would we still draft Nabors ahead of Nix or Penix, and we still don't know about JJ.
Again Nabors is special and will most certainly continue to be that way, but he isn't helping us win games when a decent QB will.

Quote from: LennG on December 22, 2024, 04:36:05 PMBob

Maybe so. But I think some have overlooked my meaning. I did not mean that Nabors isn't a special talent, he most certainly is. BUT, isn't that putting the cart before the horse?
Look what some of the QBs that we passed on are doing right now. If we had to do it over again, would we still draft Nabors ahead of Nix or Penix, and we still don't know about JJ.
Again Nabors is special and will most certainly continue to be that way, but he isn't helping us win games when a decent QB will.

Lenn,

If you drafted one of the other QBs, you wouldn't have gotten the answer if Daniel Jones was the long term answer or not.

Because he would have been hamstrung with an inferior team, and more doubts would have been raised.

By drafting Nabers all of those doubts were out to bed.

Now they can go and get their QB

Quote from: sxdxca38 on December 22, 2024, 05:49:51 PMLenn,

If you drafted one of the other QBs, you wouldn't have gotten the answer if Daniel Jones was the long term answer or not.

Because he would have been hamstrung with an inferior team, and more doubts would have been raised.

By drafting Nabers all of those doubts were out to bed.

Now they can go and get their QB

 Maybe that is the way you saw it. I, and many others, already knew what there was to know about Daniel Jones. The Great just kept going on, get Jones this, get Jones that, get Jones everything just to prove to some of his die-hard fans that he was pure garbage as a QB. Bad enough we had to fill his coffers with mucho money he never really earned, now we had to waste a future franchise QB just to prove to you and the few other die-hards that Jones didn't have anything that it took to be even a satisfactory NFL QB.

I think we are making the assumption that if a QB is playing well elsewhere that he would play well here. I couldn't disagree more.Nix has a solid offensive coach, a solid offensive line and good WRs. He wouldn't have any of that here outside of Nabers.

Just don't know how any QB can be successful here with a terrible OL, only one true WR weapon and a poor Head Coach. Jones certainly didn't have a chance and the new QB won't either unless the Giants improve all those areas. A QB is only as good as his supporting cast. Didn't Sam Darnold prove that?  Twelve teams recruited Jones with three offering him the starting job asap. What does that tell us? He wisely chose the situation at Minnesota to revive his career.

As to drafting Nabers - it was apparent the Giants were determined to take the best player on their Board at a position of need once the their top three QBs were taken. In scouting circles - Nix, Penix and McCarthy were considered mid to late 1st Rounders by many scouts. Taking any of those at 6 would have been a reach. The Giants did the right thing by taking their highest rated player at six. In the long run, that's always the best decision rather than reaching to fill a positional need.


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Quote from: todge on December 22, 2024, 06:02:40 PMI think we are making the assumption that if a QB is playing well elsewhere that he would play well here. I couldn't disagree more.Nix has a solid offensive coach, a solid offensive line and good WRs. He wouldn't have any of that here outside of Nabers.

Just don't know how any QB can be successful here with a terrible OL, only one true WR weapon and a poor Head Coach. Jones certainly didn't have a chance and the new QB won't either unless the Giants improve all those areas. A QB is only as good as his supporting cast. Didn't Sam Darnold prove that?  Twelve teams recruited Jones with three offering him the starting job asap. What does that tell us? He wisely chose the situation at Minnesota to revive his career.

As to drafting Nabers - it was apparent the Giants were determined to take the best player on their Board at a position of need once the their top three QBs were taken. In scouting circles - Nix, Penix and McCarthy were considered mid to late 1st Rounders by many scouts. Taking any of those at 6 would have been a reach. The Giants did the right thing by taking their highest rated player at six. In the long run, that's always the best decision rather than reaching to fill a positional need.


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QuoteTwelve teams recruited Jones with three offering him the starting job asap. What does that tell us? He wisely chose the situation at Minnesota to revive his career.

Can you elaborate on this--give us a link or is this more fluff that you kept filling the board with when you insisted that there were several teams ready to draft Jones if we didn't? The only person who spouted that was Phil Simms who was shilling for the Giants.

Then you say Nix and Penix would have been a reach--in what century are we talking about? If Jones wasn't a reach at #6, then no QB should be a reach in the top 15.
Come on Ted, your tune has been proven wrong so many times.

I still want to see where 3 teams were anointing Jones as their starter if they get him. Yet he goes to a team that put him on their practice squad. That is the only way he will ever see a ring, by being on the bench somewhere where that team can win it all.

Quote from: LennG on December 22, 2024, 05:57:13 PMMaybe that is the way you saw it. I, and many others, already knew what there was to know about Daniel Jones. The Great just kept going on, get Jones this, get Jones that, get Jones everything just to prove to some of his die-hard fans that he was pure garbage as a QB. Bad enough we had to fill his coffers with mucho money he never really earned, now we had to waste a future franchise QB just to prove to you and the few other die-hards that Jones didn't have anything that it took to be even a satisfactory NFL QB.

Lenn,

This is a very bold claim to make.

In 2022 Daniel Jones combined rushing and passing stats were:

67% 3900 Yards 22 TD 5 Int 92.9 RTG 62.9 QBR

This ranked him 13th and 6th respectfully with regards to his RTG and QBR.

Even his biggest critics weren't 100% certain he wasn't the answer.

So, and I ask this kindly, but can you please share with us, where you specifically said with 100% certainty, right after the 2022 season, that you knew Daniel Jones wasn't the answer?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on December 22, 2024, 08:13:55 PMLenn,

This is a very bold claim to make.

In 2022 Daniel Jones combined rushing and passing stats were:

67% 3900 Yards 22 TD 5 Int 92.9 RTG 62.9 QBR

This ranked him 13th and 6th respectfully with regards to his RTG and QBR.

Even his biggest critics weren't 100% certain he wasn't the answer.

So, and I ask this kindly, but can you please share with us, where you specifically said with 100% certainty, right after the 2022 season, that you knew Daniel Jones wasn't the answer?

Not all that bold.

Q: What had Jones done prior to 2022?

A: The same thing he did after.

2022 was an anomaly and his best season was only good enough to finish middle-of-the-pack.

Quote from: T200 on December 22, 2024, 08:48:17 PMNot all that bold.

Q: What had Jones done prior to 2022?

A: The same thing he did after.

2022 was an anomaly and his best season was only good enough to finish middle-of-the-pack.

To answer your questions.

A) His 2019 year was good for a rookie.

B) Right after his 2022 season, no one was 100% conclusive either way on what would happen.

As for myself who was pulling for DJ, I was about 80% hoping he could do it, but I couldn't guarantee he'd be successful.

And those who were still critical weren't 100% sure he'd fail, even though they leaned that way.

This is why many of his critics would say after they drafted Nabers, now he has no more excuses, because they knew there was a chance that he could succeed.

At least that's how I saw things.

Quote from: LennG on December 22, 2024, 04:36:05 PMBob

Maybe so. But I think some have overlooked my meaning. I did not mean that Nabors isn't a special talent, he most certainly is. BUT, isn't that putting the cart before the horse?
Look what some of the QBs that we passed on are doing right now. If we had to do it over again, would we still draft Nabors ahead of Nix or Penix, and we still don't know about JJ.
Again Nabors is special and will most certainly continue to be that way, but he isn't helping us win games when a decent QB will.

Lenn: IMO you successfully made your point, but I believe it's better to already have a star WR with one year of experience then add the type of QB usually available at Pick One or Pick Two (compared to having a QB with experience trying to throw to a rookie WR (no matter how good the WR is). My best example of this is this year's version of the Redskins. What's enabling them to compete is (1) they certainly picked the right QB and (2) the WR's are reliable and very competitive. Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 22, 2024, 08:41:07 AMI was in favor of drafting Malik Nabers.  I had visions of Nabers being open and giving the QB some easy slam dunk throws.  Only I haven't seen Nabers getting open like I anticipated.  Sure, Nabers is putting up good stats, but it seems that is more due to being targeted so much rather than creating separation.  That was what I felt after watching the film.  I went to NFL Next Gen stats, and they confirmed what I was seeing on film.  Nabers has an anemic 2.7 yards of separation


https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

Nabers has been getting open plenty.  Particularly early in the season before teams had a chance to realize he was going to get 15 targets a game because the Giants QB can't process a play or read a defense.  By the end of the year he's getting a lot more attention from the defense. And even with that he's going to crack 1,000 yards with maybe the worst QB room in the league. 

Next year, assuming the new QB knows how to run an offense, I think you're going to see some of those plays where he's wide open and doesn't even get a glance from his QB turn in to big play TDs.  At that point nobody will be complaining about him or the pick. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on Today at 09:25:53 AMNabers has been getting open plenty.  Particularly early in the season before teams had a chance to realize he was going to get 15 targets a game because the Giants QB can't process a play or read a defense.  By the end of the year he's getting a lot more attention from the defense. And even with that he's going to crack 1,000 yards with maybe the worst QB room in the league. 

Next year, assuming the new QB knows how to run an offense, I think you're going to see some of those plays where he's wide open and doesn't even get a glance from his QB turn in to big play TDs.  At that point nobody will be complaining about him or the pick. 

And he doesn't have to be coached to find and throw to an open receiver...