Interesting wrinkle in the Wink saga

[MightyGiants]

You are assuming they didn't try.  Like in A Few Good Men,

Jessup: What do you think of Lt. Kendrick?
Markenson: Frankly Nathan I don't think my personal opinion of Kendrick matters.
Jessup:  Personally, I think he is an XXXXXXX.  BUT, he is a damn good officer and at the end of the day we see eye to eye on how to run a unit.

In my professional lifetime, I have successfully managed some people who were very good at their jobs and who were an extreme challenge to manage.   It can be done if you want to and you know how to.  It usually requires giving up any semblance of ego.

[BluesCruz]

If he really said "your offense stinks and could not get past us in practice"

on his way out the slamming door, I think that's hilarious

You could make a movie out of all of this

[MightyGiants]

I will add one more piece to the puzzle:  When Wink parted ways with Baltimore there was zero drama:

Ravens coach John Harbaugh and his now-former defensive coordinator, Don "Wink" Martindale, had discussions over several days about a variety of topics, including Martindale's future with the organization. The expectation among most people with the team was that Martindale would be back for his fifth season leading the Ravens' defense. But when Harbaugh contacted Martindale while the head coach was at organizational meetings hosted in the Bahamas by Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti, it was made clear that a decision had to be made. The Ravens' 2021 season had been over for almost two weeks and Harbaugh needed his coaching staff in place.

The organization typically didn't want its top assistants to be on one-year, lame-duck deals. Martindale was under contract through the 2022 season, but that was it. The Ravens were willing to tack on a team option for 2023. Martindale, however, balked. He wasn't interested in giving the Ravens all the leverage to decide whether he was staying or going ahead of the 2023 season. He wanted to keep his options open.

Neither side budged, leading to a surprising divorce. Harbaugh put out a statement on a Friday night 12 days after the Ravens' season ended saying the team and Martindale were going in "separate directions."

"It was just kind of an opportunity to talk about where we were both going and what was best," Harbaugh said this week. "I think we both came to that decision together, I'd say. That's how I would like to look at it. I feel that way about it, and I think it's turning out great for him. Nothing but admiration for what he's doing."

https://theathletic.com/3690951/2022/10/14/baltimore-ravens-new-york-giants-wink-martindale/?source=emp_shared_article

[T200]

From what I hear, one thing being reported is the Giants want some control over Wink's next destination.  They don't want him to go down the Turnpike and go work for the Eagles.

To me, that is also damning.  If you think so highly of Wink's ability as a DC that you fear him going to a rival, why didn't you make things work with him?

First, how is it damning to not want a talented coach to go to a division rival?

Second, how do you suggest the Giants "make things right" with the person who throws a tantrum, leaves the state, and doesn't return calls because the boss makes a change that was totally within his scope of responsibility to do?

I call it a tantrum because that's what toddlers and children do when they don't get their way. They are not emotionally intelligent to handle their feelings when they don't get their way. As the mature, responsible person, the best way to deal with them is to let them cool off. If they are coddled, they have the upperhand.

Wink is a 70-year-old child emotionally. The only way this works out favorably for him is if Schoen and Daboll show him grace. And that will make Wink look even worse.

[coggs]

In my professional lifetime, I have successfully managed some people who were very good at their jobs and who were an extreme challenge to manage.  It can be done if you want to and you know how to.  It usually requires giving up any semblance of ego.

Again, you are assuming this is all on Daboll to adjust.  Not saying he gets to be a dictator.  But, at what point can he say enough is enough?  The whole game ball thing has been discussed.  That could have been an acknowledgement that while we are not getting along, I can recognize the job you do and the effort you put in.  Again, it was Martindale who stormed out of the meeting, went to Florida, and is not taking anyone's calls.  How is Daboll and/or Schoen supposed to say, "Ok we have our differences.  Let's put them aside or the good of the team.." if Martindale won't speak to him?

[T200]

I will add one more piece to the puzzle:  When Wink parted ways with Baltimore there was zero drama:


https://theathletic.com/3690951/2022/10/14/baltimore-ravens-new-york-giants-wink-martindale/?source=emp_shared_article

There was zero "public" drama. But it still boils down to this:

He wasn't interested in giving the Ravens all the leverage to decide whether he was staying or going ahead of the 2023 season. He wanted to keep his options open.

A little history repeating itself, if you ask me.

[MightyGiants]

First, how is it damning to not want a talented coach to go to a division rival?

Second, how do you suggest the Giants "make things right" with the person who throws a tantrum, leaves the state, and doesn't return calls because the boss makes a change that was totally within his scope of responsibility to do?

I call it a tantrum because that's what toddlers and children do when they don't get their way. They are not emotionally intelligent to handle their feelings when they don't get their way. As the mature, responsible person, the best way to deal with them is to let them cool off. If they are coddled, they have the upperhand.

Wink is a 70-year-old child emotionally. The only way this works out favorably for him is if Schoen and Daboll show him grace. And that will make Wink look even worse.

Tim,

Here's the catch, if Wink is as bad as you say he is, the Giants should be wanting him to go to Eagles and disrupt things.

[MightyGiants]

Again, you are assuming this is all on Daboll to adjust.  Not saying he gets to be a dictator.  But, at what point can he say enough is enough?  The whole game ball thing has been discussed.  That could have been an acknowledgement that while we are not getting along, I can recognize the job you do and the effort you put in.  Again, it was Martindale who stormed out of the meeting, went to Florida, and is not taking anyone's calls.  How is Daboll and/or Schoen supposed to say, "Ok we have our differences.  Let's put them aside or the good of the team.." if Martindale won't speak to him?

and @T200

Look, I have had people get emotional and curse me out. Unfortunately, it can happen.  For me, it didn't mean an automatic end.  It's never that simple.  You need to consider if what the person contributes outweighs the bad.  You need to consider if there is a different approach that will prevent future blowups.  You need to consider the balance of the good and the bad.  I have found over the decades that the biggest challenge as a manager is to let ego and/or emotions get the better of me.  It's about keeping an eye on the big picture and the primary goals.   If the person under you can help make that happen, you live with the headaches.

[BluesCruz]

Can we send Daboll to the Eagles instead?

As the new HC, after Siriani gets his arse handed to him in TB Monday night?

[T200]

Tim,

Here's the catch, if Wink is as bad as you say he is, the Giants should be wanting him to go to Eagles and disrupt things.

That's called enabling bad behavior. Don't feed tantrums. Let them fizzle out. Mature heads will prevail.

[MightyGiants]

That's called enabling bad behavior. Don't feed tantrums. Let them fizzle out. Mature heads will prevail.

Tim,

A coordinator either helps a team win and set a good culture, or they don't.  If they don't, you should want them working for a rival; if they do, then you want them working for you.  I just don't see how you can have it both ways.

[coggs]

and @T200

Look, I have had people get emotional and curse me out. Unfortunately, it can happen.  For me, it didn't mean an automatic end.  It's never that simple.  You need to consider if what the person contributes outweighs the bad.  You need to consider if there is a different approach that will prevent future blowups.  You need to consider the balance of the good and the bad.  I have found over the decades that the biggest challenge as a manager is to let ego and/or emotions get the better of me.  It's about keeping an eye on the big picture and the primary goals.   If the person under you can help make that happen, you live with the headaches.

Did the people curse you out and disappear for a period of time?  I am not saying taking an extended lunch or took the rest of the day to cool off.  Secondly, you are comparing a regular job to what these guys do.  Not the same thing.

[T200]

and @T200

Look, I have had people get emotional and curse me out. Unfortunately, it can happen.  For me, it didn't mean an automatic end.  It's never that simple.  You need to consider if what the person contributes outweighs the bad.  You need to consider if there is a different approach that will prevent future blowups.  You need to consider the balance of the good and the bad.  I have found over the decades that the biggest challenge as a manager is to let ego and/or emotions get the better of me.  It's about keeping an eye on the big picture and the primary goals.   If the person under you can help make that happen, you live with the headaches.

Hasn't Daboll exhibited everything I highlighted?

- He specifically said he expected Kafka and Wink to be back
- He did not fire Wink
- Schoen and Daboll have reached out to Wink

You're Team Wink ... I'm Team Daboll. As a leader and manager, styles and methods vary but one thing that cannot be tolerated under any circumstances is insubordination. If Wink truly felt he was disrespected and doesn't want to be in Blue, there isn't enough money that would make me stay in an untenable situation. If I have to sit out a year before I get another opportunity, so be it. But, as I have said multiple times already, Wink is emotionally immature.

[T200]

Tim,

A coordinator either helps a team win and set a good culture, or they don't.  If they don't, you should want them working for a rival; if they do, then you want them working for you.  I just don't see how you can have it both ways.

Rich,

You don't get to set the criteria and make it final. There are other options, my friend.

[MightyGiants]

Did the people curse you out and disappear for a period of time?  I am not saying taking an extended lunch or took the rest of the day to cool off.  Secondly, you are comparing a regular job to what these guys do.  Not the same thing.

If I were in Schoen's (or Daboll's) position, I would know that I made a move that I knew would set Wink off.  I fired his righthand man and his brother without so much as talking to him prior to the firing (especially as I teed up this move by publicly announcing that I thought Wink would stay and how Wink said the Giants were a destination job).  Frankly, if I wanted Wink to curse me out, that would be how I would do it.

Also, Wink has an agent.  So it's not like the team can't communicate with Wink if they want or need to, it simply needs to be done through his agent.

Finally, jobs are jobs, and people are people.  I have managed in a regular environment, a union environment, and in volunteer environments.  So, I have experience in a wide variety of management environments.