Interesting wrinkle in the Wink saga

[uconnjack8]

Thought I read tha

If I were in Schoen's (or Daboll's) position, I would know that I made a move that I knew would set Wink off.  I fired his righthand man and his brother without so much as talking to him prior to the firing (especially as I teed up this move by publicly announcing that I thought Wink would stay and how Wink said the Giants were a destination job).  Frankly, if I wanted Wink to curse me out, that would be how I would do it.

Also, Wink has an agent.  So it's not like the team can't communicate with Wink if they want or need to, it simply needs to be done through his agent.

Finally, jobs are jobs, and people are people.  I have managed in a regular environment, a union environment, and in volunteer environments.  So, I have experience in a wide variety of management environments.

Thought I read they did tell him prior to doing it.

[MightyGiants]

Rich,

You don't get to set the criteria and make it final. There are other options, my friend.

Tim,

I think that sort of goes to my point.  Every option and criteria should be set in the context of your ultimate goal, which is to have a consistently good team that wins as many championships as possible. If you have other concerns, you are interfering with what should be the primary (and really only) goal.

That said, I wouldn't use this position to justify management mistreating people. 

[GordonGekko80]

If I were in Schoen's (or Daboll's) position, I would know that I made a move that I knew would set Wink off.  I fired his righthand man and his brother without so much as talking to him prior to the firing (especially as I teed up this move by publicly announcing that I thought Wink would stay and how Wink said the Giants were a destination job).  Frankly, if I wanted Wink to curse me out, that would be how I would do it.

Also, Wink has an agent.  So it's not like the team can't communicate with Wink if they want or need to, it simply needs to be done through his agent.

Finally, jobs are jobs, and people are people.  I have managed in a regular environment, a union environment, and in volunteer environments.  So, I have experience in a wide variety of management environments.

But Rich, you agree with me, that Wink's behavior is all BUT professional?

Equally, when Wink left Baltimore, it's not like they had massive defensive issues post his departure. They are one of the best if not the best team in the league atm.

[MightyGiants]

Thought I read they did tell him prior to doing it.

I had not heard that.  Can you let me know where you did?  I am always willing to take in new information and adjust my position accordingly

[MightyGiants]

But Rich, you agree with me, that Wink's behavior is all BUT professional?

Equally, when Wink left Baltimore, it's not like they had massive defensive issues post his departure. They are one of the best if not the best team in the league atm.

I do agree, I just think there is a bigger picture that should be the focus and I also don't know how much Wink's reactions are the result of moves the Giants made (that were improper)

[T200]

Tim,

I think that sort of goes to my point.  Every option and criteria should be set in the context of your ultimate goal, which is to have a consistently good team that wins as many championships as possible. If you have other concerns, you are interfering with what should be the primary (and really only) goal.

That said, I wouldn't use this position to justify management mistreating people. 

Seems like you're dismissing Wink's insubordination and disrespect of his boss and instead making him the victim by saying he was mistreated by management.

I don't think I have anything else to add. We certainly don't see this issue the same way. 

[GordonGekko80]

I do agree, I just think there is a bigger picture that should be the focus and I also don't know how much Wink's reactions are the result of moves the Giants made (that were improper)

I think they know Wink's potential and quality.

But they realized that Wink's power games were heading in a wrong and dangerous direction. So they had to take action. The issue is just the fact that Wink wasn't having any of this.

I think one thing's clear: Wink will be leaving. Whether it's this or next offseason is probably the question. My bets are on this offseason though.

[MightyGiants]

Seems like you're dismissing Wink's insubordination and disrespect of his boss and instead making him the victim by saying he was mistreated by management.

I don't think I have anything else to add. We certainly don't see this issue the same way. 

Tim,

We may not agree, but I enjoyed the discussion.

[uconnjack8]

I had not heard that.  Can you let me know where you did?  I am always willing to take in new information and adjust my position accordingly

Its from the Schwartz article: 

"Daboll mentioned the dismissals of special teams coach Thomas McGaughey and offensive line coach Bobby Johnson.

There is no secret how close Daboll is with Johnson and this one was a tough one for Daboll, but he felt it was necessary for the betterment of the team moving forward.

Daboll told Martindale he wanted him to stay but that he was going to fire the Wilkins brothers.

Martindale brought the Wilkinses with him to the Giants from the Ravens.

On the sideline, it is Drew Wilkins helping Martindale with the personnel groupings and directing traffic for him.

Drew Wilkins helps Martindale devise the defensive schemes.

Martindale, angered by this news, cursed out Daboll, said his piece, got up, slammed the door and walked out of the building."

https://nypost.com/2024/01/09/sports/wink-martindale-cursed-out-giants-brian-daboll-after-firings/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Not sure we are talking about the same thing.  My comprehension of it is that that Daboll told Wink he was firing those brothers but wanted Wink back.  Wink cursed him out and left.

[MightyGiants]

Its from the Schwartz article: 

"Daboll mentioned the dismissals of special teams coach Thomas McGaughey and offensive line coach Bobby Johnson.

There is no secret how close Daboll is with Johnson and this one was a tough one for Daboll, but he felt it was necessary for the betterment of the team moving forward.

Daboll told Martindale he wanted him to stay but that he was going to fire the Wilkins brothers.

Martindale brought the Wilkinses with him to the Giants from the Ravens.

On the sideline, it is Drew Wilkins helping Martindale with the personnel groupings and directing traffic for him.

Drew Wilkins helps Martindale devise the defensive schemes.

Martindale, angered by this news, cursed out Daboll, said his piece, got up, slammed the door and walked out of the building."

https://nypost.com/2024/01/09/sports/wink-martindale-cursed-out-giants-brian-daboll-after-firings/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Not sure we are talking about the same thing.  My comprehension of it is that that Daboll told Wink he was firing those brothers but wanted Wink back.  Wink cursed him out and left.

So Daboll made the decision to fire Wink's key assistant without consulting him prior.  One could feel pretty confident Wink would not take kindly to that.

[T200]

Its from the Schwartz article: 

"Daboll mentioned the dismissals of special teams coach Thomas McGaughey and offensive line coach Bobby Johnson.

There is no secret how close Daboll is with Johnson and this one was a tough one for Daboll, but he felt it was necessary for the betterment of the team moving forward.

Daboll told Martindale he wanted him to stay but that he was going to fire the Wilkins brothers.

Martindale brought the Wilkinses with him to the Giants from the Ravens.

On the sideline, it is Drew Wilkins helping Martindale with the personnel groupings and directing traffic for him.

Drew Wilkins helps Martindale devise the defensive schemes.

Martindale, angered by this news, cursed out Daboll, said his piece, got up, slammed the door and walked out of the building."

https://nypost.com/2024/01/09/sports/wink-martindale-cursed-out-giants-brian-daboll-after-firings/?utm_campaign=iphone_nyp&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Not sure we are talking about the same thing.  My comprehension of it is that that Daboll told Wink he was firing those brothers but wanted Wink back.  Wink cursed him out and left.

I'm pretty confident in saying that's what *almost* everyone's comprehension of it is.

[coggs]

If I were in Schoen's (or Daboll's) position, I would know that I made a move that I knew would set Wink off.  I fired his righthand man and his brother without so much as talking to him prior to the firing (especially as I teed up this move by publicly announcing that I thought Wink would stay and how Wink said the Giants were a destination job).  Frankly, if I wanted Wink to curse me out, that would be how I would do it.

Also, Wink has an agent.  So it's not like the team can't communicate with Wink if they want or need to, it simply needs to be done through his agent.

Finally, jobs are jobs, and people are people.  I have managed in a regular environment, a union environment, and in volunteer environments.  So, I have experience in a wide variety of management environments.

Disagree completely.  "jobs are jobs and people are people" is not a valid argument.  Even within my own profession, jobs are VERY different depending on the circumstances.  That line of thinking makes you sound like one of these owners who buys a team and is going to run a team the same way he runs his cookie company.  It is a completely different dynamic.  The players and coaches are not only "labor" but they ARE the product.  Not the same thing as the people who run the machinery at a Nabisco factory.

[uconnjack8]

So Daboll made the decision to hire Wink's key assistant without consulting him prior.  One could feel pretty confident Wink would not take kindly to that.

I don't follow you.  I didn't see any discussion of future hirings. 

[T200]

I don't follow you.  I didn't see any discussion of future hirings. 

I think he meant "fire". Still doesn't justify Wink's unprofessional, disrespectful, and immature behavior.

[MightyGiants]

I don't follow you.  I didn't see any discussion of future hirings. 

Normally, after the season, teams have meetings about who to keep and who to let go, starting with the coaching staff.

Normally, the HC (often with consultation with the GM) decides which coordinators stay and which go.  Then, the HC would have meetings with the coordinator to decide which position coaches to keep and which to let go (the coordinator, as the immediate supervisor, has the most knowledge about the position coaches).

To fire a defensive assistant without consulting with Wink is unusual and disrespectful to Wink's position (just as an HC position requires respect, so do coordinators).   This is especially true when it comes to the defensive side of the ball which Daboll has limited experience with and likely spent less time with.