Giants Roster vs Commanders

[MightyGiants]

Wink turned out to be a catastrophic appointment.

Yes, they've had 3 years. Mirred with a woeful cap situation from Solder, Golladay and others. Generally, very poor play at the QB position.

But all of this has been stated elsewhere. We can just disagree.

Regardless of those issues, they were gifted Leo Williams, Dexter, Saquon, Andrew Thomas, Xavier McKenny, Julian Love, and 10 draft picks in their first draft (including the 5th and 7th), yet somehow managed to make the team they inherited even worse.

So we certainly can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's fair to suggest those who are critical of the objectively bad job Schoen and Daboll have done are "bashing" them.

[Philosophers]

Regardless of those issues, they were gifted Leo Williams, Dexter, Saquon, Andrew Thomas, Xavier McKenny, Julian Love, and 10 draft picks in their first draft (including the 5th and 7th), yet somehow managed to make the team they inherited even worse.

So we certainly can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's fair to suggest those who are critical of the objectively bad job Schoen and Daboll have done are "bashing" them.

Wink did a great job at Michigan in his first year.  He was good before the Giants. I really wonder if there was some bad dynamic between he and Dabs that affected the D.

[MightyGiants]

Wink did a great job at Michigan in his first year.  He was good before the Giants. I really wonder if there was some bad dynamic between he and Dabs that affected the D.

Wink is a good coach.  He can be a bit tricky to work with, but from all I heard, it was as much on Daboll as it was on Wink.  Notice that despite adding Brian Burns, Dru Phillips, and Tyler Nubin (with only the loss of McKinney) the defense didn't really play any better.

[EDjohnst1981]

Regardless of those issues, they were gifted Leo Williams, Dexter, Saquon, Andrew Thomas, Xavier McKenny, Julian Love, and 10 draft picks in their first draft (including the 5th and 7th), yet somehow managed to make the team they inherited even worse.

So we certainly can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's fair to suggest those who are critical of the objectively bad job Schoen and Daboll have done are "bashing" them.

Which I think also points to simply how important the QB is. Despite all that talent, mostly on the D, the offense and the team in general, have been awful.

Hopefully, with the addition of Nabers and Tracey, a competent, if unspectacular, QB and the tide my turn.

Whatever the case, I'm looking forward to finding out. 

[EDjohnst1981]

Wink did a great job at Michigan in his first year.  He was good before the Giants. I really wonder if there was some bad dynamic between he and Dabs that affected the D.

A person with his experience can certainly stand out when dealing at a lesser level.

[MightyGiants]

Which I think also points to simply how important the QB is. Despite all that talent, mostly on the D, the offense and the team in general, have been awful.

Hopefully, with the addition of Nabers and Tracey, a competent, if unspectacular, QB and the tide my turn.

Whatever the case, I'm looking forward to finding out. 

The pair had 3 years to find a franchise QB.  How did that go?  How many QBs have they drafted over the past three drafts?  They signed a pretty good FA QB in Tyrod (although admittedly a bit injury-prone) and managed to alienate him by benching him for Tommy Cutlets.  They signed Devito and Lock. 

How would you grade the pair's effort to acquire the position you are saying is so critical (not that I disagree that QB is important)?

[EDjohnst1981]

The pair had 3 years to find a franchise QB.  How did that go?  How many QBs have they drafted over the past three drafts?  They signed a pretty good FA QB in Tyrod (although admittedly a bit injury-prone) and managed to alienate him by benching him for Tommy Cutlets.  They signed Devito and Lock. 

How would you grade the pair's effort to acquire the position you are saying is so critical (not that I disagree that QB is important)?

In fairness, if the point was to win games. How many games did Tyrod win as a Giant? I remember one against Washington, but any others? DeVito had 3 wins. So perhaps they made the correct call, if the point is to win games.

There was no way they were spending a high draft pick after the ridiculous Jones contact was given. I'm sure you're well aware of that fact.

They quickly identify it was an awful contract and made overtures about the 3rd all overall pick - widely assumed to target Maye/Daniels as Williams was widely accepted to go first overall. All of this I'm sure you're aware of.

 

[MightyGiants]

In fairness, if the point was to win games. How many games did Tyrod win as a Giant? I remember one against Washington, but any others? DeVito had 3 wins. So perhaps they made the correct call, if the point is to win games.

There was no way they were spending a high draft pick after the ridiculous Jones contact was given. I'm sure you're well aware of that fact.

They quickly identify it was an awful contract and made overtures about the 3rd all overall pick - widely assumed to target Maye/Daniels as Williams was widely accepted to go first overall. All of this I'm sure you're aware of. 

They tried to trade up reportedly for Drake Maye last year, and then passed on JJ and Nix (along with Penix)

Why assume teams are limited to only high picks for QBs.  There are plenty of day 2 and even day 3 picks that have become starters.   The Giants didn't draft Brock Purdy, for example.  They didn't take a flyer last year on Rattler or Milton, which is another example.

I was listening to Todd McShay talk about how coaches like Bill Parcells and Andy Reid were always drafting QBs.  Worst case, you waste a low-round pick, better case, you get a cheap backup, best case you find a starter, and either you solve a problem or you have one to trade.

I am also not giving Schoen and Daboll credit for quickly identifying the contract they negotiated was a "bad one".

[EDjohnst1981]

They tried to trade up reportedly for Drake Maye last year, and then passed on JJ and Nix (along with Penix)

Why assume teams are limited to only high picks for QBs.  There are plenty of day 2 and even day 3 picks that have become starters.   The Giants didn't draft Brock Purdy, for example.  They didn't take a flyer last year on Rattler or Milton, which is another example.

I was listening to Todd McShay talk about how coaches like Bill Parcells and Andy Reid were always drafting QBs.  Worst case, you waste a low-round pick, better case, you get a cheap backup, best case you find a starter, and either you solve a problem or you have one to trade.

I am also not giving Schoen and Daboll credit for quickly identifying the contract they negotiated was a "bad one".

We constantly talk of lack of depth and the value of draft capital. I'm not up for them wasting on day 2-3 QB fliers. They have enough holes.

Reid has drafted 3 quarterbacks sine 2014. So it's not fair to say he's "always drafting QBs". Granted, one of those is in the GOAT conversation but the  other two are the epitome of wasted picks in Murray and Hogan.

Yes, passed on Nix and Penix. Save for Ed V,on Nix, I don't recall a single person banging the drum for them.

I'm also mindful of drawing any meaningful conclusions on them from a small sample. Yes, Nix had a fantastic year and Penix had some success - let's see where both are in 2-3 years or longer.

[Philosophers]

I've said it before and I will say it again.  The Giants will regret passing on JJ.  I know with his injury he was out so has not proven anything yet in the NFL.  After next season, folks will see that he should have been taken.

[MightyGiants]

We constantly talk of lack of depth and the value of draft capital. I'm not up for them wasting on day 2-3 QB fliers. They have enough holes.

Reid has drafted 3 quarterbacks sine 2014. So it's not fair to say he's "always drafting QBs". Granted, one of those is in the GOAT conversation but the  other two are the epitome of wasted picks in Murray and Hogan.

Yes, passed on Nix and Penix. Save for Ed V,on Nix, I don't recall a single person banging the drum for them.

I'm also mindful of drawing any meaningful conclusions on them from a small sample. Yes, Nix had a fantastic year and Penix had some success - let's see where both are in 2-3 years or longer.

I am not doing McShay's explanation justice.  So I am posting an AI description of the strategy.


The philosophy of always drafting quarterbacks in the NFL is based on the belief that quarterbacks are the most valuable asset in football. Even if a team already has a franchise quarterback, consistently drafting QBs ensures a pipeline of talent, trade leverage, and roster security. Here's why some teams and executives adopt this mindset:
Key Reasons Behind the Philosophy

• Quarterback is the Most Important Position
  
  • The modern NFL revolves around elite quarterback play. A team can only go as far as its quarterback allows.
  • Injuries, regression, or contract disputes can derail a team, so having a steady flow of QB talent prevents setbacks.
• Drafting Quarterbacks Maximizes Value
  
  • QBs have the highest trade value in the league. Even if a drafted QB doesn't become a starter, they can be flipped for draft capital or other assets.
  • Teams have successfully traded backup QBs for premium picks (e.g., the Patriots trading Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett).
• Development and Depth
  
  • Not every QB is ready to start immediately. Having a young QB learn behind an established starter ensures long-term stability.
  • If a team's starter gets injured, a strong backup prevents a lost season.
• Avoiding the "QB Desperation Cycle"
  
  • Teams that wait until they need a quarterback often overpay in trades or draft capital (e.g., the Panthers trading up for Bryce Young).
  • Always drafting QBs ensures a team never reaches a crisis point at the position.
• Competition Breeds Success
  
  • Having multiple quarterbacks on the roster creates competition, pushing all players to improve.
  • If a high draft pick underperforms, a late-round QB could emerge as a better option.
• QB-Friendly Rule Changes
  
  • The modern NFL favors passing offenses, making the quarterback position more valuable than ever.
  • Teams that consistently invest in QBs adapt better to league trends.

Teams That Have Used This Approach

• Green Bay Packers – Drafted Aaron Rodgers despite having Brett Favre, then drafted Jordan Love despite Rodgers still playing at a high level.
• New England Patriots – Consistently drafted QBs under Bill Belichick, including Jimmy Garoppolo, Jacoby Brissett, and Mac Jones.
• Philadelphia Eagles – Drafted Jalen Hurts despite having Carson Wentz, leading to long-term stability.

Conclusion
The philosophy of always drafting quarterbacks isn't about replacing the starter—it's about maximizing value, maintaining depth, and future-proofing the team. In a league where QB play determines success, having options at the position is never a bad strategy.

[EDjohnst1981]

Ok, three teams use this approach.

Pats have one play off berth post Brady.

Packers have one title since 09

Eagles, yes - very successful over the last half decade both with Wentz then drafting Hurts.

But that doesn't address my points that Reid doesn't do it, which was claimed in your response.

Ultimately, there's more than one way to skin a cat to achieve a superbowl. I'm just not convinced the way the Pats and Pack have done it is the right way.

[MightyGiants]

Ok, three teams use this approach.

Pats have one play off berth post Brady.

Packers have one title since 09

Eagles, yes - very successful over the last half decade both with Wentz then drafting Hurts.

But that doesn't address my points that Reid doesn't do it, which was claimed in your response.

Ultimately, there's more than one way to skin a cat to achieve a superbowl. I'm just not convinced the way the Pats and Pack have done it is the right way.

I was mistaken, Todd said Bill Parcells and Bill Walsh

If you go to the 31:20 mark you can hear what McShay was talking about.  It's not a long segment, but I did find the idea compelling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycQ3MHiJZow

[Philosophers]

If you have a 28 year old ELI as your starter and you draft a QB in round 4, you wasted a draft pick because he wont beat out Eli and at 28 you have Eli for another decade.  If you use the 4th round pick on another position you may draft a starter. 

[MightyGiants]

If you have a 28 year old ELI as your starter and you draft a QB in round 4, you wasted a draft pick because he wont beat out Eli and at 28 you have Eli for another decade.  If you use the 4th round pick on another position you may draft a starter. 

A draft pick (at less than a million) is cheaper than a veteran QB who runs you $5 million or so.  Plus, if the pick pans out, he could bring back more draft capital than what was spent.

To circle back to the situation at hand.  The 2 year escape clause indicates that Schoen and Daboll were not sure they had a franchise QB.  So why didn't they draft at least one QB in the last 3 drafts.  I forgot Hooker as another prospect they passed on with a day 3 pick.