Giants’ dysfunction flows from John Mara, Mike Florio says | Pro Football Talk

[MightyGiants]

Mike Florio and Chris Simms discuss how the Giants' ownership has sent mixed messages by not firing leadership but also noting that he's running out of patience.

[T200]

"Damn! Can we just be relevant?!?" 

That takes patience, commitment, trusting the guys you hire, and not getting in their way. Not Johnny's forte'.

[babywhales]

Mara has created these hard to navigate situations for the better portion of the past decade.

Nothing new

[Gmo11]

Mara has created these hard to navigate situations for the better portion of the past decade.

Nothing new

Correct.  Starting when he fired Coughlin.  He's been on tilt every since.  Sometimes you just need to walk away from the table.  He needs to walk away and let the football people run the team.  And stay out of it.

[nb587]

Correct.  Starting when he fired Coughlin.  He's been on tilt every since.  Sometimes you just need to walk away from the table.  He needs to walk away and let the football people run the team.  And stay out of it.

I agree that Mara is a problem; my sense is that he is the problem.  That said, and this is coming from a huge Coughlin fan.  I love the guy.  I thought he lost something off his fastball in his last season.  What I didn't understand was how his lack of faith in a bad defense influenced his decisions on the rest of the team.  For Mara to fire Coughlin and then spend a ton of money on the defense with a new untested HC was downright stupid.  And, going forward, the way he selected Garrett as OC for Judge and, and in my opinion, tied Schoen's hands with respect to Jones and Barkley.  I wanted Schoen and Daboll brought back but to bring them back and go public with some of his remarks tells me Mara will nevet learn to let the professionals do their jobs while he keeps his mouth shut about football decisions at leadt publicly

[files58]

In the past 10 years the value of the team has increased from $2.1 Billion to $7.3 Billion while putting forth a product that could be considered to be the same as what comes out of the south end of a northbound horse. Maybe worse. That's all one needs to know. His ego is satisfied, and from a human nature standpoint there is no incentive to change.

[andrew_nyGiants]

Florio is absolutely correct.

Mara wants it both ways. He may be running out of patience but he didn't pull the trigger because he had no idea what to do next.

HE HAS NO CLUE HOW TO HIRE! HE'S PROVEN IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

[katkavage]

We didn't need Florio to tell us this. It was out there in the open for all to see.

[Ed Vette]

In the past 10 years the value of the team has increased from $2.1 Billion to $7.3 Billion while putting forth a product that could be considered to be the same as what comes out of the south end of a northbound horse. Maybe worse. That's all one needs to know. His ego is satisfied, and from a human nature standpoint there is no incentive to change.

The average value of an NFL team has doubled in the last ten years. So has the value of the NYGs Franchise, where in 2015 the estimated value was 2.5 Billion, and now it's 4 Billion or more. These are estimates so the quotes of Forbes, CNBC, and Sportico of 7.3 to 7.85 Billion are not factual. Just as the League average value of 6.49 Billion is also not in stone. They are all in it for the appreciation of their Franchise. Although I have to disagree that it's their only motivation.   

[ViewFromSection129]

I really enjoyed watching this.  The guys said the things I've said for years. That one,  our last two super bowls were with teams that got hot at the right time and were not dominant.  And two,  that we haven't had sustained success in 35 years.

We've been first in our division only five times since super bowl 25. Top three in the conference only three times since then (twice the top seed, once the number three seed). Double digit wins only nine times.  This franchise is wildly overrated because of the Super Bowl wins and because it's an original franchise. 

Yes the nineties were better than i give them credit for,  and yes,  2005-2011 was pretty successful. But if you really look at this franchise since super bowl 25, it's really not very good.

[files58]

The average value of an NFL team has doubled in the last ten years. So has the value of the NYGs Franchise, where in 2015 the estimated value was 2.5 Billion, and now it's 4 Billion or more. These are estimates so the quotes of Forbes, CNBC, and Sportico of 7.3 to 7.85 Billion are not factual. Just as the League average value of 6.49 Billion is also not in stone. They are all in it for the appreciation of their Franchise. Although I have to disagree that it's their only motivation.   

Even if the value has only gone up to $4 Billion my point is even though from a performance perspective they have been terrible, yet the business is "succeeding". Where do you find poor product production and poor performance leading to financial success? If you owned a business that doubled in value yet was at the bottom of the market would there really be incentive to change?

[Ed Vette]

Even if the value has only gone up to $4 Billion my point is even though from a performance perspective they have been terrible, yet the business is "succeeding". Where do you find poor product production and poor performance leading to financial success? If you owned a business that doubled in value yet was at the bottom of the market would there really be incentive to change?

The valuation of each team has little to do with their individual performances. It has to do with the branding of the NFL as a valuable sports commodity and their regional markets, and revenue sharing. We're both saying the same thing. I just believe that there's more motivation than just riding the Brand. I believe that the Mara's and Jones' have a personal pride in their stake. Which has nothing to do with their competence as owners.

[Ed Vette]

It looks to me from the outside that Schoen is looking to walk a tightrope here. He's trying the be fiscally responsible while fortifying the team with FAs to improve their chances of immediate success, while knowing he has to Draft a QB of the future.

I don't know how he will grade each QB, but if it isn't close, will he move up for Ward and lose draft capital? If he has four QBs close, will he take a chance and not draft a QB at three?

The unknown is what conversations take place between him and Mara and what Mara puts out to the public to show that he cares about the product. My guess is he's looking for improvement and not a playoff run. 7-8 wins would do it and a QB in development.

[sxdxca38]

All of this Mara dysfunctional talk would not even be relevant if the Giants had drafted a franchise QB.

If they had drafted Justin Herbert back in 2020.

Or

Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson or Sam Darnold back in 2018.

[Painter]

All of this Mara dysfunctional talk would not even be relevant if the Giants had drafted a franchise QB.

If they had drafted Justin Herbert back in 2020.

Or

Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson or Sam Darnold back in 2018.

I'm having trouble following much less endorsing your reasoning concerning Florio's widely accepted assertion that John Mara's is central in the both the current and longer-term dysfunction of the Giants Organization.

Mara's cronyism was singularly responsible for the hiring of the useless bloviator Dave Gettleman who completely and quite rigidly overestimated the value and contribution to winning of a Giants Running Back-even one as talented as Barkley- and thus foreclosed the possibility of adding one of the QBs you mentioned. Then the following year, with Justin Herbert deciding to not enter the Draft, Gettleman/ Mara found themselves enamored instead by a Manning Bothers-coached, Eli-resembling QB from Duke named Daniel Jones, who they gleefully took with their 6th overall pick.

How did both of those Mara-made Gettleman decisions pan out? There is no way to spin it into something woulda/coulda good. Nor as it turned out, was it anything but a millstone around the collective necks of Schoen and Daboll who, although now free from DJ, are still yoked by Mara's equivocations while approaching a Draft and FA marked by a high level of uncertainty.

I suspect that what Florio really wanted to say, although already too late to do so, was John Mara STFU.

Cheers!