https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/pff-ranks-the-giants-offensive-line-last-in-the-nfl/ar-BB1mjMp1?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=1cab010bd23c4199a4da657cf3068fc7&ei=39
some people put so much stock in what and how PFF ranks people, so here's their opinion of our new and rebuilt OL.
Last in the NFL
https://pff.com/news/nfl-strongest-weakest-position-groups-free-agency-2024-nfl-draft?
Good news for DJ. Another year of slack.
Color me shocked that the first response in a thread about the OL and their expected performance is a dig at DJ.
Like Swiss clockwork.
PFF might actually be right about something in this case.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 13, 2024, 08:40:35 PMhttps://pff.com/news/nfl-strongest-weakest-position-groups-free-agency-2024-nfl-draft?
Good news for DJ. Another year of slack.
Not sure in what universe DJ would consider this good news:
Weakest: New York GiantsEven after earning the worst offensive line grade of any team in 2023, the Giants did very little to improve their unit this offseason. The group recorded a 44.6 PFF grade last year and will hope a fully healthy Andrew Thomas and the additions of guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and tackle Jermaine Eluemunor (68.7) can provide a boost.
DJ's suffered more than his fair share of injuries thanks to a long series of poor O-line protection. Hell, last year, three quarterbacks started for NYG and three QB were injured playing behind that line
Quote from: y_so_blu on May 13, 2024, 10:36:51 PMPFF might actually be right about something in this case.
PFF tends to be right more than it's wrong. PFF is not perfect, but it's a reasonable measure of player performance (or at least a good supplement). It's also helpful for positions where there are few quality stats.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 08:46:33 AMPFF tends to be right more than it's wrong. PFF is not perfect, but it's a reasonable measure of player performance (or at least a good supplement). It's also helpful for positions where there are few quality stats.
Ranking an Offensive Line before the season is ridiculous. Especially since this Giants line has at least two players who have never played together, the sophomore season for the center, and undecided on who will be at RT. They're doing the PFF grades and coming up with an average. Let's see how this Unit plays together first. Although, I'm not personally satisfied that they didn't draft a Guard this year. Until they finally fix that line, Daniel Jones will not thrive. I doubt Lock would too. They didn't take a chance on finding an elite QB because they believed in Jones. Let's hope this Unit jells. Either way, Jones is destined to be here in 2025.
They signed 4 free agent guards with flex plus 2 blocking TEs and drafted another.
JMS in year 2 plus what is really year 2 for Neal with a new oline coach and there's no way they aren't better.
I'm not saying elite or even great but could easily see us being 18th at the end of 2024 with our additions.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 09:23:18 AMRanking an Offensive Line before the season is ridiculous. Especially since this Giants line has at least two players who have never played together, the sophomore season for the center, and undecided on who will be at RT. They're doing the PFF grades and coming up with an average. Let's see how this Unit plays together first. Although, I'm not personally satisfied that they didn't draft a Guard this year. Until they finally fix that line, Daniel Jones will not thrive. I doubt Lock would too. They didn't take a chance on finding an elite QB because they believed in Jones. Let's hope this Unit jells. Either way, Jones is destined to be here in 2025.
For years, the Giants have substituted hope for plans when it comes to the O-line, and unfortunately, this year is no different. The Giants hope Evan Neal can significantly improve (at least they have Eluemunor if Neal fails). The Giants hope JMS can play significantly better than he did last season. The Giants hope they can find a quality second guard to team with Runyan.
If hope succeeds and the new O-line coach proves to be a difference maker, this unit has a ceiling of average to high average. Should it turn out that Bobby Johnson was unfairly blamed or both Neal and JMS don't significantly improve, this unit could be at or near the bottom again (especially if injury-prone Thomas misses significant time).
Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 14, 2024, 09:29:12 AMThey signed 4 free agent guards with flex plus 2 blocking TEs and drafted another.
JMS in year 2 plus what is really year 2 for Neal with a new oline coach and there's no way they aren't better.
I'm not saying elite or even great but could easily see us being 18th at the end of 2024 with our additions.
That seems like a realistic ceiling
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 08:45:11 AMNot sure in what universe DJ would consider this good news:
Weakest: New York Giants
Even after earning the worst offensive line grade of any team in 2023, the Giants did very little to improve their unit this offseason. The group recorded a 44.6 PFF grade last year and will hope a fully healthy Andrew Thomas and the additions of guard Jon Runyan (56.5 PFF grade in 2023) and tackle Jermaine Eluemunor (68.7) can provide a boost.
DJ's suffered more than his fair share of injuries thanks to a long series of poor O-line protection. Hell, last year, three quarterbacks started for NYG and three QB were injured playing behind that line
PFF = Click bait
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 08:46:33 AMPFF tends to be right more than it's wrong. PFF is not perfect, but it's a reasonable measure of player performance (or at least a good supplement). It's also helpful for positions where there are few quality stats.
The only hope is that the o-line is the one position group where sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, eg, the 2008 Giants o-line.
But it puts into perspective all of the chatter here about the line improving to average this year. Maybe they will, but I will have to see it to believe it.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 10:42:48 AMThe only hope is that the o-line is the one position group where sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, eg, the 2008 Giants o-line.
But it puts into perspective all of the chatter here about the line improving to average this year. Maybe they will, but I will have to see it to believe it.
To this end, I don't know if it was pushed by Bobby Johnson or Brian Daboll, but the focus on position versatility rather than unit cohesion seems counter-productive
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 13, 2024, 08:40:35 PMhttps://pff.com/news/nfl-strongest-weakest-position-groups-free-agency-2024-nfl-draft?
Good news for DJ. Another year of slack.
More like another year for the detractors to ignore the offensive context in which DJ has had to operate in for his whole career.
Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 14, 2024, 09:29:12 AMJMS in year 2 plus what is really year 2 for Neal with a new oline coach and there's no way they aren't better.
Oh trust me, there is way.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 10:44:32 AMMore like another year for the detractors to ignore the offensive context in which DJ has had to operate in for his whole career.
Maybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything?
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 09:31:48 AMFor years, the Giants have substituted hope for plans when it comes to the O-line, and unfortunately, this year is no different. The Giants hope Evan Neal can significantly improve (at least they have Eluemunor if Neal fails). The Giants hope JMS can play significantly better than he did last season. The Giants hope they can find a quality second guard to team with Runyan.
If hope succeeds and the new O-line coach proves to be a difference maker, this unit has a ceiling of average to high average. Should it turn out that Bobby Johnson was unfairly blamed or both Neal and JMS don't significantly improve, this unit could be at or near the bottom again (especially if injury-prone Thomas misses significant time).
Let's not also forget the new strength and conditioning staff, led by Aaron Wellman, Frank Piraino and Drew Wilson running the show behind the scenes. They are cognizant of the injury history of this team and have already put action plans into place in order to address them and, hopefully, correct and prevent them going forward.
Peace!
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 10:56:25 AMMaybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything?
It's not a question of capitulation. I'm not even a big Jones supporter. What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses. There is a difference between excuses and explanations.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 11:06:21 AMIt's not a question of capitulation. I'm not even a big Jones supporter. What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses. There is a difference between excuses and explanations.
Actually there are no excuses for the 30th ranked Defense, A failed Oline since 2013 and stupid GM decisions like drafting a RB with the second pick of the draft. How about an involved owner? The difference here is that these Jones lovers take his criticisms personally for some reason. Sometimes ya just gotta admit you were wrong. Mark my words, Jones will win games as I always said he could and be a better Regular season QB than Eli, and then choke in the playoffs.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 10:56:25 AMMaybe you haven't capitulated but I'm done with all the excuses. I supported his draft pick because he was the best QB to choose from. 2 years later it was obvious what we had, 6 years later I see him here the next two years or more. He's going to need a top-ten Oline to thrive here. Otherwise, it's dink and dunk, dink and dunk... freeze and duck, freeze and duck. I'm very disappointed in this regime right now. Maybe after a few wins, I'll be in a better mood. Unless of course, the schedule is a 2023 killer to start the season, the oline fails, he get injured through no fault of the Oline and the Defense fails to defend. Did I miss anything?
PFF Rankings
year -- Pass blocking --- receiving
2023 -- 32nd -- 32nd
2022 -- 24th -- 27th
2021 -- 30th -- 31st
2020 -- 32nd -- 25th
2019 -- 16th -- 17th
The best DJ had was his rookie season when his on-field support was slightly below the mean. The rest of the time DJ has had bottom 3rd (and even dead last) support both in protection and receiving.
I don't see how, from that data, we can conclude that DJ needs "top 10" to be effective. I think accusations of making excuses hide the unrealistic expectations of those making the accusations.
DJ is like a car you stumble across with two flat tires. The engine starts, but that's all you can learn about the car because you can't drive it with two flats. Now, it's possible that once you fix the flats, it will turn out that the transmission is shot, and the car is still useless. However, until you fix the flat tires, there is no way to know what the car fully does. That's what you have with DJ. Until you give him half a chance, you can't say with any certainty what you have.
Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 10:31:50 AMPFF = Click bait
It's not just PFF. You'd be hard pressed to find a projected 2024 ranking of o-lines that doesn't have the Giants in the bottom 5. I've looked.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 11:22:42 AMPFF Rankings
year -- Pass blocking --- receiving
2023 -- 32nd -- 32nd
2022 -- 24th -- 27th
2021 -- 30th -- 31st
2020 -- 32nd -- 25th
2019 -- 16th -- 17th
The best DJ had was his rookie season when his on-field support was slightly below the mean. The rest of the time DJ has had bottom 3rd (and even dead last) support both in protection and receiving.
I don't see how, from that data, we can conclude that DJ needs "top 10" to be effective. I think accusations of making excuses hide the unrealistic expectations of those making the accusations.
DJ is like a car you stumble across with two flat tires. The engine starts, but that's all you can learn about the car because you can't drive it with two flats. Now, it's possible that once you fix the flats, it will turn out that the transmission is shot, and the car is still useless. However, until you fix the flat tires, there is no way to know what the car fully does. That's what you have with DJ. Until you give him half a chance, you can't say with any certainty what you have.
2019, a middling Oline and a 4-12 season. Then the dink and dunk of 2022, only to get spanked by the Eagles in the playoffs. You glossed over the point. He will NEVER win this team a SB Trophy. Do I need to repeat myself? OK
"Jones will win games as I always said he could and be a better Regular season QB than Eli, and then choke in the playoffs."
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 11:44:48 AM2019, a middling Oline and a 4-12 season. Then the dink and dunk of 2022, only to get spanked by the Eagles in the playoffs. You glossed over the point. He will NEVER win this team a SB Trophy. Do I need to repeat myself? OK
"Jones will win games as I always said he could and be a better Regular season QB than Eli, and then choke in the playoffs."
How did Jones get to the position to be "spanked" by the Eagles in the playoffs?
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 12:05:02 PMHow did Jones get to the position to be "spanked" by the Eagles in the playoffs?
By a brilliant Offensive drafted by Daboll to disguise Jones deficiencies and work to his Run Strength. Saquon, Dink, Dunk, Read option. Then at the end of the season the league figured it out and they got lucky to face the lousy Vikings Defense. How did those last eight games go again?
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 12:24:42 PMBy a brilliant Offensive drafted by Daboll to disguise Jones deficiencies and work to his Run Strength. Saquon, Dink, Dunk, Read option. Then at the end of the season the league figured it out and they got lucky to face the lousy Vikings Defense. How did those last eight games go again?
It seems like you refuse to give Jones any credit for the team's success, but are more than willing to blame him for the team's shortcomings.
To the last 8 games, to avoid that issue, I will look at how Jones did
From last to earliest
Opponent -- QB rating -- QBR -- PFF grade
Eagles -- 53.8 -- 11.7 -- 46.7
Vikings -- 114.1 -- 82.5 -- 80.9
Colts -- 125.2 -- 97.0 -- 81.9
Vikings -- 92.8 -- 59.1 -- 85.3
Washington -- 77.6 -- 76.8 -- 75.8
Eagles -- 96.1 -- 77.0 -- 78.0
Washington -- 104.3 -- 32.5 -- 68.4
Cowboys -- 88.8 -- 60.9 -- 50.8
So to answer your question, the team didn't do that well, but more often than not Jones played well.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 12:38:27 PMIt seems like you refuse to give Jones any credit for the team's success, but are more than willing to blame him for the team's shortcomings.
To the last 8 games, to avoid that issue, I will look at how Jones did
From last to earliest
Opponent -- QB rating -- QBR -- PFF grade
Eagles -- 53.8 -- 11.7 -- 46.7
Vikings -- 114.1 -- 82.5 -- 80.9
Colts -- 125.2 -- 97.0 -- 81.9
Vikings -- 92.8 -- 59.1 -- 85.3
Washington -- 77.6 -- 76.8 -- 75.8
Eagles -- 96.1 -- 77.0 -- 78.0
Washington -- 104.3 -- 32.5 -- 68.4
Cowboys -- 88.8 -- 60.9 -- 50.8
So to answer your question, the team didn't do that well, but more often than not Jones played well.
Thanks to the Vikings and Dolts.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 11:06:21 AMIt's not a question of capitulation. I'm not even a big Jones supporter. What I am is an opponent of putting all of the blame for being disappointed with the regime for the the last 6, hell 10, years on his his shoulders and the ridiculousness of calling the sea of incompetence he's has to swim in excuses. There is a difference between excuses and explanations.
This is factually incorrect. Not ONE PERSON has PUT "ALL the blame" on his shoulders!....not ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT. Ever.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 12:46:19 PMThanks to the Vikings and Dolts.
Two must-win games where Jones did the opposite of choke
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 01:35:39 PMTwo must-win games where Jones did the opposite of choke
Almost 500 yards rushing in those three games where the Giants lost one against teams that have up 25 points a game average. The Vikings had one of the worst passing Defenses in the league that year giving up 4500 yards.
Not bad for a game manager.
Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 01:34:37 PMThis is factually incorrect. Not ONE PERSON has PUT "ALL the blame" on his shoulders!....not ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT. Ever.
Well sure... but are you considering how much easier it is to argue (and take the high ground) against an imagined, wildly-unreasonable person?
Quote from: Trench on May 14, 2024, 01:34:37 PMThis is factually incorrect. Not ONE PERSON has PUT "ALL the blame" on his shoulders!....not ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS DONE THAT. Ever.
Hi,
You may not be aware of this, but here is a direct quote from a poster just a few months ago, and this is what he said about DJ.
"Well what do you want me to call them? Never in all my life do I remember a fanbase of any NY sports franchise; Football, baseball; hockey ; and Basketball so devoted to a player who so obviously just stinks! Can you name one? ... I can't."
There are many more comments like this, but I think you get the point.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 14, 2024, 03:44:15 PMHi,
You may not be aware of this, but here is a direct quote from a poster just a few months ago, and this is what he said about DJ.
"Well what do you want me to call them? Never in all my life do I remember a fanbase of any NY sports franchise; Football, baseball; hockey ; and Basketball so devoted to a player who so obviously just stinks! Can you name one? ... I can't."
There are many more comments like this, but I think you get the point.
A comment that Jones "stinks" does not equate to putting all the blame on him for the Giants' shortcomings.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 14, 2024, 04:15:42 PMA comment that Jones "stinks" does not equate to putting all the blame on him for the Giants' shortcomings.
What does it mean when he gets blamed for many of the sacks the OL subjects him to, but when a back-up behind a better OL is sacked at an even higher rate we are told that the back-up has better pocket sense? What does it mean when the woes of the defense are the fault of all the 3 and outs he has, when in actuality the TOP is virtually 50-50? The fact is that there are posters who have tried to place virtually every team failing at DJ's feet.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 04:29:17 PMWhat does it mean when he gets blamed for many of the sacks the OL subjects him to, but when a back-up behind a better OL is sacked at an even higher rate we are told that the back-up has better pocket sense? What does it mean when the woes of the defense are the fault of all the 3 and outs he has, when in actuality the TOP is virtually 50-50? The fact is that there are posters who have tried to place virtually every team failing at DJ's feet.
And I can go through a list of what I perceive as mental gymnastics of those intent on defending Jones from the mildest of criticism... but where would that get us? My comment that initiated your response was pretty narrow and I have no desire (and little to gain) by going any wider.
Are you guys being mean to Daniel Jones again?
/sarcasm/
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 14, 2024, 04:29:17 PMWhat does it mean when he gets blamed for many of the sacks the OL subjects him to, but when a back-up behind a better OL is sacked at an even higher rate we are told that the back-up has better pocket sense? What does it mean when the woes of the defense are the fault of all the 3 and outs he has, when in actuality the TOP is virtually 50-50? The fact is that there are posters who have tried to place virtually every team failing at DJ's feet.
It certainly does not mean it is all on Jones - nobody to my knowledge has ever once said that.
It is unfair to put words in other posters mouths.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 12:24:42 PMBy a brilliant Offensive drafted by Daboll to disguise Jones deficiencies and work to his Run Strength. Saquon, Dink, Dunk, Read option. Then at the end of the season the league figured it out and they got lucky to face the lousy Vikings Defense. How did those last eight games go again?
Ed: no one has confirmed why Daboll ran a simplified offense that year. But did you ever consider it was constructed that way to accommodate an awful pass blocking OL and a WR corp lacking of any talent?
As to the Vikings - Jones passed for 300 yards and ran for 100 while Barkley ran for 53 yards. Why did Barkley struggle against a weak defense and Jones didn't?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: todge on May 14, 2024, 07:10:56 PMEd: no one has confirmed why Daboll ran a simplified offense that year. But did you ever consider it was constructed that way to accommodate an awful pass blocking OL and a WR corp lacking of any talent?
As to the Vikings - Jones passed for 300 yards and ran for 100 while Barkley ran for 53 yards. Why did Barkley struggle against a weak defense and Jones didn't?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Barkley ran for 84 yards and Jones 34. Against Indy Jones passes for 177 yards. He passed for 135 and 169 yards against Philly. He passed for 300 yards three times that year and two times against Minnesota. Twelve games of 200 yards or less. So no.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 07:44:42 PMBarkley ran for 84 yards and Jones 34. Against Indy Jones passes for 177 yards. He passed for 135 and 169 yards against Philly. He passed for 300 yards three times that year and two times against Minnesota. Twelve games of 200 yards or less. So no.
How many rushing yards did Jones contribute?
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 14, 2024, 07:45:19 PMHow many rushing yards did Jones contribute?
He's paid to throw the ball. Quarterback.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 07:46:46 PMHe's paid to throw the ball. Quarterback.
Let's see how he does this year in the pocket.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 14, 2024, 04:15:42 PMA comment that Jones "stinks" does not equate to putting all the blame on him for the Giants' shortcomings.
Here are some more quotes for you:
"Just pathetic. If they think I am paying money to watch this, they have another thing coming. No idea why they are trying so bad to make fetch happen with Jones. The guy clearly sucks."
"Also don't mind the banter. Some people just don't like to be wrong that is all. Jones stinks."
"Not to mention Zak Wilson was a back-up last year, and he is a better QB than Jones; so is Darnold for that matter."
"Whereas here, the emperor is not wearing any clothes and mara loves Daniel Jones, so we have to endure yet another year of excuses for Daniel Jones."
"It is like I am in the twilight zone when it comes to Giants fans and Daniel Jones. I cannot think of one player in my sports watching lifetime -- IN ANY SPORT-- where there was such a dedication to a player who so clearly sucks."
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 14, 2024, 09:30:40 PMHere are some more quotes for you:
"Just pathetic. If they think I am paying money to watch this, they have another thing coming. No idea why they are trying so bad to make fetch happen with Jones. The guy clearly sucks."
"Also don't mind the banter. Some people just don't like to be wrong that is all. Jones stinks."
"Not to mention Zak Wilson was a back-up last year, and he is a better QB than Jones; so is Darnold for that matter."
"Whereas here, the emperor is not wearing any clothes and mara loves Daniel Jones, so we have to endure yet another year of excuses for Daniel Jones."
"It is like I am in the twilight zone when it comes to Giants fans and Daniel Jones. I cannot think of one player in my sports watching lifetime -- IN ANY SPORT-- where there was such a dedication to a player who so clearly sucks."
Can you please point out where any of that it says "it is ALL on Jones"??
If not, please don't put words in people's mouths. There is not a fan on this forum who believes everything is Jones fault.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 07:46:46 PMHe's paid to throw the ball. Quarterback.
Tell that to MVP QB Lamar Jackson.
Seriously, it's not like officials forced the Giants to punt when DJ's legs pick up a first down. It's not like officials tell the score keeper to remove that touchdown because DJ ran it in rather than threw it. Yardage, first downs, and touchdowns all count the same regardless if DJ got them through the air or on the ground.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 07:47:22 PMLet's see how he does this year in the pocket.
I think this is extremely important this year. One has to assume that his rushing production will take a hit post-ACL unless he has an Adrian Peterson-like recovery.
I for one am shocked that this OL which yielded a historic # of sacks last year is rated the worst in preseason.
Hopefully the FAs they added can bring enough to the table to help bring this group to at least middle of the road.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 15, 2024, 06:03:19 AMTell that to MVP QB Lamar Jackson.
Seriously, it's not like officials forced the Giants to punt when DJ's legs pick up a first down. It's not like officials tell the score keeper to remove that touchdown because DJ ran it in rather than threw it. Yardage, first downs, and touchdowns all count the same regardless if DJ got them through the air or on the ground.
Jackson can throw the ball downfield while scrambling and running or from the pocket and not get hurt to the point of losing a massive amount of time.
Torn ACL, and several neck injuries have resulted in him not protecting himself by sliding or giving himself up. Not being available for 21 games out of 81 or 26%. All of his injuries are not from poor protection but poor judgment, stubbornness and too dumb to learn how to slide.
Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on May 15, 2024, 06:34:34 AMI think this is extremely important this year. One has to assume that his rushing production will take a hit post-ACL unless he has an Adrian Peterson-like recovery.
It won't matter if he hasn't learned how to slide or take an Eli dive. He's apparently too rigid of a body or not athletic enough to be able to slide. One of his issues is taking off after the first read. Because he can't read the field past his first read, or hesitates and windows close. Something the apologists and pilot fish are too stubborn or obtuse to accept. Which are the same traits he exhibits.
Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 12:19:36 AMCan you please point out where any of that it says "it is ALL on Jones"??
If not, please don't put words in people's mouths. There is not a fan on this forum who believes everything is Jones fault.
Can you please show me in the quotes where it doesn't say that he isn't?
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 07:44:28 AMIt won't matter if he hasn't learned how to slide or take an Eli dive. He's apparently too rigid of a body or not athletic enough to be able to slide. One of his issues is taking off after the first read. Because he can't read the field past his first read, or hesitates and windows close. Something the apologists and pilot fish are too stubborn or obtuse to accept. Which are the same traits he exhibits.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 07:34:39 AMJackson can throw the ball downfield while scrambling and running or from the pocket and not get hurt to the point of losing a massive amount of time.
Torn ACL, and several neck injuries have resulted in him not protecting himself by sliding or giving himself up. Not being available for 21 games out of 81 or 26%. All of his injuries are not from poor protection but poor judgment, stubbornness and too dumb to learn how to slide.
I don't remember the first neck injury. However the second one was a hit in the back because Ezeudu completely wiffed his block. The ACL was from trying to get out of the pocket because his protection had completely broken down. DJ actually was trying to get around his unengaged RT to escape the pressure from his left.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 15, 2024, 09:27:48 AMCan you please show me in the quotes where it doesn't say that he isn't?
You can't support your actual point, so instead you demand someone prove a negative?
Let's break this down quickly: you asserted people on the board are pinning it all on Jones based on a quote which didn't actually support that prospect, got that pointed out, continued to provide some random quotes which similarly didn't support your point. But instead of conceding, you double-down by requesting that others prove that people
didn't assert your point?
Sorry, but that's not how it works. Either you can back up what you assert or you can't. Pretty clear where we've landed on that right now.
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 15, 2024, 10:20:25 AMYou can't support your actual point, so instead you demand someone prove a negative?
Let's break this down quickly: you asserted people on the board are pinning it all on Jones based on a quote which didn't actually support that prospect, got that pointed out, continued to provide some random quotes which similarly didn't support your point. But instead of conceding, you double-down by requesting that others prove that people didn't assert your point?
Sorry, but that's not how it works. Either you can back up what you assert or you can't. Pretty clear where we've landed on that right now.
Thank you. Case closed.
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 15, 2024, 09:27:48 AMCan you please show me in the quotes where it doesn't say that he isn't?
You're claiming the absence of a statement must mean it's true!? If I proclaim Evan Neal is a terrible RT, does that automatically equate to him being the sole reason for the Giants failures?
Also, where does it say in those statements that DJ won't become an AP by the time he's 35? I mean, if the absence of a statement is evidence of intent, we can make anything up...
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 15, 2024, 10:20:25 AMYou can't support your actual point, so instead you demand someone prove a negative?
Let's break this down quickly: you asserted people on the board are pinning it all on Jones based on a quote which didn't actually support that prospect, got that pointed out, continued to provide some random quotes which similarly didn't support your point. But instead of conceding, you double-down by requesting that others prove that people didn't assert your point?
Sorry, but that's not how it works. Either you can back up what you assert or you can't. Pretty clear where we've landed on that right now.
I had the same reaction, but you beat me to it. Asking someone to prove a negative is completely unfair.
Quote from: MightyGiants on May 15, 2024, 09:34:21 AMI don't remember the first neck injury. However the second one was a hit in the back because Ezeudu completely wiffed his block. The ACL was from trying to get out of the pocket because his protection had completely broken down. DJ actually was trying to get around his unengaged RT to escape the pressure from his left.
"Jones, who just returned from a three-game absence with a neck injury, had his knee bend awkwardly trying to avoid a sack on the last play of the first quarter. He returned, but on the very next play, his right knee buckled under him again during his dropback.
"He felt like he buckled, and then he was running it off," Daboll said about the two-play sequence. "We went over to him, we talked to him, he said, 'Nah, I'm good,' and then went back in, and it obviously wasn't."Awkwardly trying to avoid a sack... QB's try to avoid sacks every game. No QB is clean all game. He needs to learn how to protect his body. Something he hasn't been able to do in 5 seasons. Then instead of getting checked out, he goes right back out there. That's on Daboll too BTW.
The 2023 neck was all on Ezeudu, you're right. It was his 6th sack that day. The other 2021 neck was on a running play. He still doesn't slide and when he runs, he's exposing himself if he doesn't give himself up.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 14, 2024, 07:47:22 PMLet's see how he does this year in the pocket.
Let's see how long he has in the pocket before he has to start running for his life.
Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 12:19:36 AMCan you please point out where any of that it says "it is ALL on Jones"??
If not, please don't put words in people's mouths. There is not a fan on this forum who believes everything is Jones fault.
Geez, it's called hyperbole.
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 15, 2024, 07:21:50 AMI for one am shocked that this OL which yielded a historic # of sacks last year is rated the worst in preseason.
Hopefully the FAs they added can bring enough to the table to help bring this group to at least middle of the road.
I'm shocked too, in the same sense that Police Captain Louis Renault was shocked that there was gambling going on at Rick's in Casablanca.
The key word in your 2nd para is "Hopefully" as there seems to be a lot of hope triumphing over experience.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 07:34:39 AMJackson can throw the ball downfield while scrambling and running or from the pocket and not get hurt to the point of losing a massive amount of time.
Torn ACL, and several neck injuries have resulted in him not protecting himself by sliding or giving himself up. Not being available for 21 games out of 81 or 26%. All of his injuries are not from poor protection but poor judgment, stubbornness and too dumb to learn how to slide.
That's a lot easier to do when you are playing behind a very good OL and not an historically bad OL.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/offensive-line-rankings-and-tiers-end-of-nfl-season-review-2024-offensive-line-outlook/
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 01:43:32 PMLet's see how long he has in the pocket before he has to start running for his life.
And the beat goes on...
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 01:53:41 PMThat's a lot easier to do when you are playing behind a very good OL and not an historically bad OL.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/offensive-line-rankings-and-tiers-end-of-nfl-season-review-2024-offensive-line-outlook/
When y'all are crying because they didnt draft a QB, Ill be there to provide comfort and shelter from the storm.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 01:55:04 PMAnd the beat goes on...
And it will continue to go on until the Giants demonstrate that they can field a decent (i.e., not top ten, but is hoping for not bottom ten too much to ask?) offensive line.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 01:57:36 PMWhen y'all are crying because they didnt draft a QB, Ill be there to provide comfort and shelter from the storm.
You'd be very hard-pressed to find me taking any exception to drafting or not drafting a QB. I never took a position.
But I apologize for continuing to bring facts, context, and perspective into the discussion.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 02:03:29 PMYou'd be very hard-pressed to find me taking any exception to drafting or not drafting a QB. I never took a position.
But I apologize for continuing to bring facts, context, and perspective into the discussion.
Must be nice being neutral. After all the unnecessary sacks taken and illustrated on this site and QB comparison on other teams who managed well, your context is subjective. The Offensive Line was clearly an issue, so was the QB.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 02:03:29 PMYou'd be very hard-pressed to find me taking any exception to drafting or not drafting a QB. I never took a position.
But I apologize for continuing to bring facts, context, and perspective into the discussion.
As it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult. I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 02:15:57 PMMust be nice being neutral. After all the unnecessary sacks taken and illustrated on this site and QB comparison on other teams who managed well, your context is subjective. The Offensive Line was clearly an issue, so was the QB.
I wasn't coping your point, Ed; you just beat me to it.
Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult. I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality
I was going to drop that point and it's a good one, but I didn't want to have to explain myself in a series of another dozen posts for those in the back of the room.
Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult. I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality
You, me, and a few others have been making this point for years now. It just seems to be too complicated a point for some to wrap their heads around. So we end up seeing all those elementary school level posts as if there are no inputs (other than coaching) to an offensive line's performance.
Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult. I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality
That article is about EPA, I found another EPA stat the other day that was interesting if not alarming.
1st round QBs to post negative EPA/att in EACH of their first 3 years in the NFL:
Joey Harrington (2002-04)
Kyle Boller (2003-05)
Sam Darnold (2018-20)
Daniel Jones (2019-21)
Zach Wilson (2021-23)
Justin Fields (2021-23)
(since 2000, min 200 att/yr)
Per Warren Sharp
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 01:55:04 PMAnd the beat goes on...
True, there seem to be some fans who think a QB can be in the top 10 playing behind the worst line in the league. I seriously doubt the NFL coaches and GMs believe that or they wouldn't be spending so much high draft capital and money on offensive linemen if their play didn't have a major impact (or as Jone's critics love to say "make excuses") on a quarterback's play.
That really seems to be the Daniel Jones divide in a nutshell. There are those who believe a quarterback needs at least a mediocre offensive line to function properly (or at least partially offset by the elite receiver(s)), and there seem to be fans who think any consideration of a quarterback's protection is "just making excuses." Plus I some critics suggest that if Jones can't function behind horrible lines than he needs an elite line or, I have also heard, "he needs to have everything perfect".
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 01:44:35 PMGeez, it's called hyperbole.
Well it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth
Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 02:24:24 PMAs it relates to context, should we continue to decouple the Offensive Line from the QB performance? From your posts, I get the impression you believe only the QB benefits from the OL, but fail to acknowledge the OL benefits from sound QB play. If the latter is terrible, it can make the OL appear worse than it is, or at the very least make thier jobs more difficult. I stumbled across the article below a few years back and kept it to test thier conclusions at the end of each year. I highly encourage you read and consider the points made. To be clear, I'm not suggesting the Giants OL is great, good, or even average. I acknowledge they stink and negatively impact DJ's performance; however, I also acknowledge DJ's shortcomings contribute to a significant portion of his sacks. IMO, they collectively stunk...
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/are-nfl-quarterbacks-responsible-for-sack-quality
Funny thing is, some here were lauding Tommy DeVito's pocket presence and how much better it was than DJ's, yet despite the fact that the Oline was better when he was playing due to improved personnel (Thomas and Pugh) he had a higher sack percent than DJ. And no one said a word about any of those sacks being his fault.
The difference in Tommy DeVito and Daniel Jones is $40 million dollars a year, five years of NFL experience, and being Drafted #6 in the first round, vs OOGATZ and just do your best kid.
And the beat goes on...
When I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.
If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?
Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on May 15, 2024, 10:20:25 AMYou can't support your actual point, so instead you demand someone prove a negative?
Let's break this down quickly: you asserted people on the board are pinning it all on Jones based on a quote which didn't actually support that prospect, got that pointed out, continued to provide some random quotes which similarly didn't support your point. But instead of conceding, you double-down by requesting that others prove that people didn't assert your point?
Sorry, but that's not how it works. Either you can back up what you assert or you can't. Pretty clear where we've landed on that right now.
It saddens me when you make a claim, then do absolutely no research on the point and then double down on your position like you actually know.
However, It actually works in my favor because it exposes your faulty line of reasoning.
Here are the quotes that back up exactly what I have said, are you ready?
"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."
Let me know when you're ready to apologize?
or do you want to keep it up?
Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 10:22:17 AMThank you. Case closed.
Is the case really closed? or maybe you haven't actually researched the point?
Here is your quote:
"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."
Let me know when you're ready to apologize?
Or do you want to keep up your position?
Quote from: kingm56 on May 15, 2024, 10:25:22 AMYou're claiming the absence of a statement must mean it's true!? If I proclaim Evan Neal is a terrible RT, does that automatically equate to him being the sole reason for the Giants failures?
Also, where does it say in those statements that DJ won't become an AP by the time he's 35? I mean, if the absence of a statement is evidence of intent, we can make anything up...
Is it really the absence of a statement? or maybe all I had to do was research the point, which I would encourage you to do.
Here is your quote
"I think the term "we are not a QB away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So, you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."
Let me know when you're ready to apologize?
or do you want to double down on your position?
Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 07:32:35 PMWhen I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.
If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?
I answered your question. Maybe it wasn't loud enough. It's stupid to evaluate an Offensive Line with two new veteran starters, a second year Center, a new Oline Coach and no playing time together. Including how injuries will impact the continuity.
Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 07:32:35 PMWhen I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.
If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?
Lenn,
I am not surprised by the ranking. The Giants offseason additions were not top echelon guys. Thomas is the only guy on the line with any credentials for "rankings".
I think if they had traded for or signed a pro-bowl caliber OL they might have been ranked higher. They signed a lot of mediocrity and added that to a group that mostly rated worse than mediocre.
I don't know if they will be better. I think they could be. It seemed like most of the signees were better pass blockers than run blockers. Maybe they can find one thing they do well and have an identity. That would be an improvement in my opinion. Last year they couldn't run or pass block. If they pass block well, they might be able to set up the run via the pass.
I'll believe it when it I see it.
Quote from: Trench on May 15, 2024, 04:09:47 PMWell it is in poor taste to make a completely false statement on a message board where we are continually dissecting words and thoughts and then when called out, the answer is it was simply hyperbole. Had it been stated as such in the beginning (or simply admit a mistake was made) we could have avoided a lot of negative back and forth
May I ask who made the false statement?
Here is the quote
"I think the term "we are not a qb away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."
Are you ready to apologize?
or double down?
choose
I'll wait
Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 15, 2024, 07:59:24 PMMay I ask who made the false statement?
Here is the quote
"I think the term "we are not a qb away from being good" is a complete cop out and utter bull sht. So you don't think the Giants make the playoffs this past season with CJ Stroud at Qb? The defense wasn't the problem, they kept us in games, Slayton was running wide open with Hyatt half the season. We also saw our oline play exceptionally better under Tyrod than with Jones/Devito, some of that to do with health and the rest because tyrod is an actual NFL quarterback."
Are you ready to apologize?
or double down?
choose
I'll wait
To be fair I think he was referring to this statement of mine:
QuoteWhat does it mean when he gets blamed for many of the sacks the OL subjects him to, but when a back-up behind a better OL is sacked at an even higher rate we are told that the back-up has better pocket sense? What does it mean when the woes of the defense are the fault of all the 3 and outs he has, when in actuality the TOP is virtually 50-50? The fact is that there are posters who have tried to place virtually every team failing at DJ's feet.
Quote from: Ed Vette on May 15, 2024, 07:50:59 PMI answered your question. Maybe it wasn't loud enough. It's stupid to evaluate an Offensive Line with two new veteran starters, a second year Center, a new Oline Coach and no playing time together. Including how injuries will impact the continuity.
If PFF can tell us we have the worst OL in the league right now, how can they evaluate it and make that statement?
Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 15, 2024, 07:57:24 PMLenn,
I am not surprised by the ranking. The Giants offseason additions were not top echelon guys. Thomas is the only guy on the line with any credentials for "rankings".
I think if they had traded for or signed a pro-bowl caliber OL they might have been ranked higher. They signed a lot of mediocrity and added that to a group that mostly rated worse than mediocre.
I don't know if they will be better. I think they could be. It seemed like most of the signees were better pass blockers than run blockers. Maybe they can find one thing they do well and have an identity. That would be an improvement in my opinion. Last year they couldn't run or pass block. If they pass block well, they might be able to set up the run via the pass.
I'll believe it when it I see it.
Me also. But the point being, in a nutshell--WHY"
Why, when we already had the worst OL in the league, was this not addressed, even to the point of bringing in one quality guy to show fans that they are trying?
Yes, these new and hopefully, improved guys, maybe better than last year's crop (they certainly can't be worse), it just boggles my mind that we again are predicted to be at the bottom of the barrel, and management either doesn't care or is sluffing off on their jobs.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 15, 2024, 08:37:50 PMTo be fair I think he was referring to this statement of mine:
SX - all I was trying to convey in this entire thread was nobody said everything was Jones fault. Personally, if you are so interested in research maybe you should go look up the amount of times I said I'm still rooting for him and also the amount of times I said I will be the first on line to admit I was wrong if he balls out. That remains true.
Please I ask you with respect that you try not to put words in my mouth.
Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 07:32:35 PMWhen I started this thread it was about the OL and, as usual, it has ended up being a referendum on Daniel Jones, like most other threads.
If anyone cares, what about our 'new and impr oved' OL? Is PFF right and do we still have the worst OL in the league or have we made some significant improvements to make it, at least, average?
Len,
At this point, it seems wisest to take a wait-and-see approach. On the surface, there seems to be more hope than plan. Still, the Giants added some mid-tier and lower-tier veterans and hopefully upgraded their coaching. The hope is that it all comes together and the team has an adequate O-line, but it's more than fair to say that it remains to be seen. It's funny, as you pointed out that this ended up being yet another Daniel Jones thread (as usual, the ones making it about Jones were his critics). Still, the ironic part is that Schoen and Daboll's futures may not hinge on Daniel Jones as much as they will hinge on the O-line, where Schoen has invested heavy amounts of draft and cap capital with literally nothing to show for it.
Quote from: LennG on May 15, 2024, 08:44:15 PMMe also. But the point being, in a nutshell--WHY"
Why, when we already had the worst OL in the league, was this not addressed, even to the point of bringing in one quality guy to show fans that they are trying?
Yes, these new and hopefully, improved guys, maybe better than last year's crop (they certainly can't be worse), it just boggles my mind that we again are predicted to be at the bottom of the barrel, and management either doesn't care or is sluffing off on their jobs.
I think they feel the did address it and they couldn't dump even more resources into a position group that they have already dumped multiple high 1st round picks, several mid to late round picks and almost 10 FAs in the last 2 years.
They also changed coaches. At some point personnel resources have yo be used for the rest of the team.
I will add this: I think the team is leaning heavily on their new line coach, Carmen Bricillo. I would have to think Schoen and Daboll talked to Carmen after he reviewed the tape and asked him what he needed to produce an adequate offensive line. I have to assume the players signed were what he said he needed. I can't imagine the Giants hired the new O-line coach and left him hanging, telling him he needed to make chicken salad out of chicken poop.
https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/5/20/24160180/did-the-giants-actually-improve-their-interior-offensive-line-this-offseason
This is an excellent introduction to our FA signings. Like most, I've been disappointed till I'm jaded about the o line rebuild, and I'll believe it when I see it in a few games. Still, these look like smart pick ups. That's what Accorsi did to build us a dominant o line that gave us 2, nearly three superbowls.
They seemed a lot better blocking for Tommy D
Perhaps they raise their game a bit for a decent QB......not a guy afraid to let the ball fly
Quote from: BluesCruz on May 20, 2024, 05:54:35 PMThey seemed a lot better blocking for Tommy D
Perhaps they raise their game a bit for a decent QB......not a guy afraid to let the ball fly
If you would have done even a simple Google search you would have seen that Devito to 3 times more sacks than Taylor and even more sacks than Jones.
Quote from: BluesCruz on May 20, 2024, 05:54:35 PMThey seemed a lot better blocking for Tommy D
Perhaps they raise their game a bit for a decent QB......not a guy afraid to let the ball fly
That's funny, since with better personnel (Thomas and Pugh) they gave up a higher percentage of sacks when he was under center than they did when DJ was under center.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 20, 2024, 08:54:49 PMThat's funny, since with better personnel (Thomas and Pugh) they gave up a higher percentage of sacks when he was under center than they did when DJ was under center.
I think it seemed better because he threw it downfield more and made more plays.
Quote from: Trench on May 20, 2024, 11:48:31 PMI think it seemed better because he threw it downfield more and made more plays.
And that's the problem with the eye test, when it isn't fact checked by measurables.
Justin Pugh did not represent an improvement in personnel. He was terrible on the field, despite his likeable personality. He had a 41.6 PFF grade (compared to 42.4 for Ezeudu who's been a complete disaster).
Pugh was on the couch, played 12 terrible games for the Giants, and is back on the couch where he belongs
Quote from: Doc16LT56 on May 21, 2024, 12:35:33 PMJustin Pugh did not represent an improvement in personnel. He was terrible on the field, despite his likeable personality. He had a 41.6 PFF grade (compared to 42.4 for Ezeudu who's been a complete disaster).
Pugh was on the couch, played 12 terrible games for the Giants, and is back on the couch where he belongs
I don't know. Did Pugh retire
Last I heard he intended to bulk up and get ready to rumble in 2024
Guy loves the Giants team and was a coach on the field. A great confidence boost to an online that looked lost
My sons best friend was a neighbor of Pugh's growing up and had nothing but great things to say about Justin Pugh
Quote from: BluesCruz on May 21, 2024, 12:53:51 PMI don't know. Did Pugh retire
Last I heard he intended to bulk up and get ready to rumble in 2024
Guy loves the Giants team and was a coach on the field. A great confidence boost to an online that looked lost
My sons best friend was a neighbor of Pugh's growing up and had nothing but great things to say about Justin Pugh
That's the problem with Pugh. Great guy but was a terrible player last season. So far he's still on the couch. He may be waiting for another rash of injuries before some team calls him out of desperation. But he's absolutely a great guy. He's the guy you'd invite to the cookout every time.
Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 20, 2024, 08:54:49 PMThat's funny, since with better personnel (Thomas and Pugh) they gave up a higher percentage of sacks when he was under center than they did when DJ was under center.
Sacks aside they seemed to be more in synch for DeVito (and Tyrod Taylor),that's what I meant
The not so slippery Daniel Jones seemed constantly running for his life
Ya know, I was hopeful when I first embarked on this thread, that it wouldn't become just another Daniel Jones debate....but alas! Here we are again.
I am still very concerned that we haven't improved the OL enough to make a big difference. Looking at the PFF scores, it seems that we signed a slightly better brand of lousy. And if Schmitz doesn't improve markedly, any improvement in the overall unit will be negligible. Just like last year, I'm more hopeful than confident. Much more.