Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on December 30, 2023, 11:39:28 AMHow about this Dave?  Squeezing everything they can get out of this good but limited roster?

😂

That's all they can do for now.

Maybe the organization is content with the status quo. The Knicks do have the third highest revenue of any NBA franchise and the second highest valuation (per Forbes). Maybe there is a "don't fix what isn't broken" attitude inside the organization, even though it is abundantly clear this group, as presently constructed, will never come close to sniffing a title.

Quote from: nb587 on December 30, 2023, 11:41:43 AMBoth Brunson and Randle are playing at all star levels; neither of them did last year.  If the point made was that they're not as good as the elite teams, I wouldn't argue much.  But, the point that they're not any better last year is off in my opinion.  The injury to Robinson hurts alot and I get your point about the team record. But, I think they have improved and are a better team going forward.  I should add that I expect them to make another move this year before the trade deadline.  Another Hart level player who can play the wing would help

I definitely think the Robinson injury is a rough one and matters, but if we are being brutally honest with ourselves, the situation was not really different before he got hurt.

They haven't had the easiest schedule to this point - I will grant you that. Maybe things will look better several weeks from now. However as you note, Robinson won't be back anytime soon, and that has left a big hole.

Wow, speak of the devil. I hadn't posted in this thread in over a month - I post yesterday, and look what happens today.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1741146251532603871

What do you think about this trade?

Quote from: Philosophers on December 30, 2023, 01:00:59 PMWhat do you think about this trade?

I have mixed feelings as a first reaction.

Postives:

-I have never been a fan of Barrett. He is capable of having big games and sometimes does, but he is a pretty flawed player, and his contract is terrible and he's not a FA until 2027. Getting him off the books to me is a win.

-OG is a great defensive big man, so he fills the hole left by Robinson, who looks like he's going to miss a lot of time, maybe even the rest of the season.

-OG brings a lot more offense to the table, including being a very good three point shooter.

-Getting an expiring contract is gold in the NBA. The Knicks can easily move this guy for picks or younger talent at the deadline if they want.


Negatives:

-I don't love losing Quickley, as he is a pretty explosive scorer, and now the Knicks really have zero in the backcourt outside of Brunson.

-OG is a surprisingly ineffective rebounder for a man his size.

-Roster fit once Robinson is healthy: How do you have Robinson, OG, and Randle on the floor at the same time? Their respective roles seem to overlap too much.


Overall I think getting rid of Barrett is a positive, and we definitely had a real issue with losing Robinson for this long, and that is now resolved, but I'm not sure we got enough of a return. Especially if we have to give up any sort of relevant draft capital on top of this.

Still, this may be an unfinished project. They may look to move this guy or someone else later.

Unless there's something else in the works this is an awful trade. 

Quote from: Messiah717 on December 30, 2023, 01:17:18 PMUnless there's something else in the works this is an awful trade. 

Why do you feel that way? I actually am starting to warm up to it a little.

Bill Simmons (who I consider pretty sharp with NBA stuff) said it's a good trade for both sides.

I made a mistake before. I saw 7'2", and assumed that was his height. My bad. It's his wingspan. He's only 6'7".

So the point about rebounds and the point about getting him to fit in roster-wise with Randle and Robinson (when healthy) was not valid. This guy is an inside-out player who is a very good defender and good scorer who can shoot threes. He's a clear upgrade to Barrett (who played no defense and was an inefficient and erratic player).

Looks like the Knicks will likely make another move to acquire backcourt help to replace Quickley.

From The Athletic:


How the deal helps New York

The Knicks have long been on the prowl for a big wing — and not just any big wing. They've pursued Anunoby since before last season's trade deadline, offering multiple first-round picks to Toronto for him, sources told The Athletic at the time. The Raptors, however, were not entertaining offers for him as seriously then as they did now.

The 6-foot-7 Anunoby is in the midst of another superb defensive season after sliding into All-Defense a season ago. He gives New York more 3-point shooting in its starting lineup, too, considering he's a more reliable threat than Barrett is from deep.

He will slot into the first unit that has included Jalen Brunson, Donte DiVincenzo, Julius Randle and Isaiah Hartenstein, who replaced the injured Mitchell Robinson.
Achiuwa, meanwhile, will presumably absorb the backup center minutes, which have gone to Taj Gibson since Robinson's ankle surgery. Jericho Sims, another center, is recovering from an ankle sprain, as well.

Flynn has a chance to earn backup point guard minutes with Quickley heading to Toronto.

Anunoby has become even more of a Knicksian target of late, as well. Last season, he switched representation from Klutch Sports to CAA, where current Knicks president Leon Rose once ran the basketball division. New York has gone after CAA clients ever since Rose and his right hand, William Wesley, took over the front office, signing Jalen Brunson, drafting Obi Toppin, trading for Josh Hart, extending Randle and making other CAA-related moves.

One of Anunoby's reps at CAA is Sam Rose, Leon Rose's son. Sam also represents Brunson, Toppin and Toppin's brother, Jacob, who is on a two-way contract with New York. — Fred Katz, Knicks staff writer

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 30, 2023, 02:05:48 PMOne of Anunoby's reps at CAA is Sam Rose, Leon Rose's son. Sam also represents Brunson, Toppin and Toppin's brother, Jacob, who is on a two-way contract with New York. — Fred Katz, Knicks staff writer

I don't know what to make of this trade but the part about acquiring CAA represented players, especially those represented by the team President's son is concerning, as it's rife for all sorts of abuse that benefit the Rose family at the expense of the Knicks.

I would have been fine trading Barrett straight up for him but throwing Quickley and draft considerations make this feel like the moves that drove the Knicks into the desert 20 years ago. IMHO Quickly is one of the better 6th man in the league. Time will tell. So far I'm not really impressed with Rose.

Quote from: madbadger on December 30, 2023, 02:40:01 PMI don't know what to make of this trade but the part about acquiring CAA represented players, especially those represented by the team President's son is concerning, as it's rife for all sorts of abuse that benefit the Rose family at the expense of the Knicks.

I would have been fine trading Barrett straight up for him but throwing Quickley and draft considerations make this feel like the moves that drove the Knicks into the desert 20 years ago. IMHO Quickly is one of the better 6th man in the league. Time will tell. So far I'm not really impressed with Rose.

Pretty much my point.  Gave up a lot for one guy who frankly isn't turning the Knicks into that much better of a team if at all.  It also seems like more of a move to make space for next year.  More of the same wheels turning in mud. 

I'm going to reserve my opinion as I believe there's another trade being worked on before the deadline. Depending on what that looks like, I'll have an opinion on the roster overall.


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The stuff about Rose's son doesn't bother me that much. That relationship helped pave the way to get Brunson. While I know some here weren't huge fans of that deal at the time and thought the Knicks were overpaying, I think it's fair to say now that it has worked out extremely well. The guy is potentially looking at all NBA honors this year, and he is the 16th highest paid point guard. I think the Knicks killed it on that acquisition. The guy is outstanding for the price.

No way in hell Toronto would have ever traded Anunoby for Barrett straight up. The two players aren't comparable plus Barrett has a brutal contract situation. Nobody in their right mind would ever do that.

I don't love losing Quickley either but he and the Knicks were very far apart in contract discussions, and for the Knicks to justify giving him what he wants they would need to get him a lot more minutes, which wasn't really possible with Brunson here. The writing was on the wall that he was going to leave. I like Quick, but if I'm deciding between him and Brunson I know which way I'm going every day of the week.

Like Andrew I want to see how the roster looks after the deadline before I do a final evaluation on this. I don't think this is some terrible deal for the Knicks though.

Regarding Rose, people can think what they want, but the Knicks have been light years better under his stewardship than they have since the 90s. And they have plenty of assets. I get that they're not championship caliber yet, but we were the laughingstock of the NBA for basically 20 years before this guy came. He has shown discipline (refusing to give in to Danny Ainge's demands for Donovan Mitchell) and aggressiveness (going hard after Brunson which was a great move). He has shown patience and has not made many mistakes to this point. I think he's doing a pretty solid job. We'll see how things shake out with this trade and any follow-up trades.

Athletic grade for the Knicks:


Knicks receive OG Anunoby, Precious Achiuwa, Malachi Flynn

There is some risk involved for the Knicks here as they gave up a significant amount for Anunoby. Barrett had a hot shooting start to the season and then came crashing back to earth in December with a putrid shooting month. I'm still a believer in his game and think a change of scenery can do him some good. It was tough for him to get a scoring rhythm with Julius Randle jab-stepping possessions into late-clock situations. He can be more of a playmaker in a different place, but we also need to see consistency in his shot for any of that to work out.

Also, Quickley is one of the best bench players in the league, and he's definitely capable of being a starting point guard for a good team. With the signing of Donte DiVincenzo this summer, it made it easier to send out Quickley and not deal with his restricted free agency this summer. Getting Malachi Flynn to throw into the guard rotation is nice insurance, and Precious Achiuwa is a much needed big body with the Mitchell Robinson injury. Achiuwa can do some things with the ball, but he's a little undersized for being a primary big.

Anunoby will likely be a free agent this summer. He has a player option for next season around $19 million, and he can make a lot more than that annually by hitting the unrestricted free-agent market. The Knicks probably wouldn't make this trade giving up Quickley without feeling pretty confident they can re-sign Anunoby this summer (Anunoby's agent is the son of Knicks president Leon Rose, so there should be confidence.) Anunoby has the potential to fit in better than Barrett did, if he's willing to slide into the hierarchy of Knicks possessions behind Jalen Brunson and Randle.

Anunoby is a great finisher around the rim and inside of 10 feet. He can attack closeouts, and you have to respect his outside shooting. He's a career 37.5 percent shooter from deep, and he's right in line with that percentage this season (37.4). He's usually a 40 percent shooter on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers, so having him play off of Randle and Brunson on offense should lead to great opportunities for him when the ball swings.

The reason you get him, though, is his defense. He's one of the most elite perimeter defenders in the NBA. He can defend one through four on the court and make life miserable for his matchup. He's great at navigating screens, and the Knicks really need a stopper on the perimeter to throw at opponents at the end of games. Anunoby is quick enough to guard smaller guards, and strong enough to handle big wings and forwards. The Knicks add a more reliable shooter and an All-Defense level player. They just have to make sure they re-sign him this summer, assuming he doesn't exercise that player option.

Grade: B+ (higher if they re-sign him)

https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741182379077546303