Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: madbadger on December 30, 2023, 02:40:01 PMI don't know what to make of this trade but the part about acquiring CAA represented players, especially those represented by the team President's son is concerning, as it's rife for all sorts of abuse that benefit the Rose family at the expense of the Knicks.

I would have been fine trading Barrett straight up for him but throwing Quickley and draft considerations make this feel like the moves that drove the Knicks into the desert 20 years ago. IMHO Quickly is one of the better 6th man in the league. Time will tell. So far I'm not really impressed with Rose.

Yes.  The Quickley inclusion bothers me.

I've had some time to grasp the results of this trade. At first I though, "oh no, they're back to reaching..." I liked both players we lost, but I've had time to think it over

My thoughts:

1) Anunoby is a big upgrade from Barrett (both offensively and especially defensively)...even though, I really liked Barrett. IMO, Barrett is a little too "soft", but a damn good basketball player. Unfortunately, "soft" doesn't cut it in the NBA. If this was a straight-up trade for Barrett, it would be a coup!

2) Hate losing Quick, but truth is, we have a glut of guards that isn't good for the overall strength of the team. After the trade, they signed Miles McBride to a 13M, 3-year contract. The "Deuce" will get more playing time now and a chance to hone his skills. I suspect DiVincenzo will see more time at PG as well

3) They also hold the rights to PG Rokas Jokubaitis (drafted in the 2nd round ahead of McBride and Sims in the same draft), who just turned 23 years old and has close to 6 years of international experience under his belt playing professional ball around the globe. He has been dying to get to NY and showcase his skill set. Rose might be planning on bringing him over to see what he can do on the big stage, which is something he has said he wants to do for the last couple of years

4) Anunoby is 26 years old and most likely, will play at his peak abilities for the next 5-6 years when athletes tend to make their mark in history

5) This should take some pressure off Randle, and hopefully loosen him up a bit as defenses have to worry about the other side of the court more than they have in the past. Other teams strategize their defensive plan to "take Randle and Brunson out of their game". Now they have three players that MUST be taken seriously

6) The Knicks just became a better overall defensive team

7) I think there's another trade in the works, so it will be interesting to see what this team looks like in a few weeks

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 31, 2023, 11:20:53 AMI've had some time to grasp the results of this trade. At first I though, "oh no, they're back to reaching..." I liked both players we lost, but I've had time to think it over

My thoughts:

1) Anunoby is a big upgrade from Barrett (both offensively and especially defensively)...even though, I really liked Barrett. IMO, Barrett is a little too "soft", but a damn good basketball player. Unfortunately, "soft" doesn't cut it in the NBA. If this was a straight-up trade for Barrett, it would be a coup!

2) Hate losing Quick, but truth is, we have a glut of guards that isn't good for the overall strength of the team. After the trade, they signed Miles McBride to a 13M, 3-year contract. The "Deuce" will get more playing time now and a chance to hone his skills. I suspect DiVincenzo will see more time at PG as well

3) They also hold the rights to PG Rokas Jokubaitis (drafted in the 2nd round ahead of McBride and Sims in the same draft), who just turned 23 years old and has close to 6 years of international experience under his belt playing professional ball around the globe. He has been dying to get to NY and showcase his skill set. Rose might be planning on bringing him over to see what he can do on the big stage, which is something he has said he wants to do for the last couple of years

4) Anunoby is 26 years old and most likely, will play at his peak abilities for the next 5-6 years when athletes tend to make their mark in history

5) This should take some pressure off Randle, and hopefully loosen him up a bit as defenses have to worry about the other side of the court more than they have in the past. Other teams strategize their defensive plan to "take Randle and Brunson out of their game". Now they have three players that MUST be taken seriously

6) The Knicks just became a better overall defensive team

7) I think there's another trade in the works, so it will be interesting to see what this team looks like in a few weeks

Great summary JG. I agree with all of it.

Like you, I was initially somewhat unnerved by the trade, but after looking more closely at all the details and coming to what I believe to be an understanding of what the Knicks are trying to do, I am not just more comfortable with it but am actually totally supportive of it. They will need to make another move for sure, but I like the direction they're going in.

And going back to my first of these more recent posts (which I made prior to any knowledge of this trade), the current group has clearly plateaued and gotten to a point where they weren't going to get appreciably better without change. I know one poster disagreed with that a little, but even that poster acknowledged that we are not on par with the top teams in the conference, which is pretty obvious from looking at the results. So I'm glad they have shaken it up a little, and this is not at all a shakeup done out of desperation or impetuosity. They have been chasing this guy for over a year now. The fact that the Raptors turned down three first rounders for him last year and are only now moving him because they need to blow the team up due to the rest of the roster being so bad says a lot to me.

https://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741399886212317335

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 31, 2023, 11:34:47 AMGreat summary JG. I agree with all of it.

Like you, I was initially somewhat unnerved by the trade, but after looking more closely at all the details and coming to what I believe to be an understanding of what the Knicks are trying to do, I am not just more comfortable with it but am actually totally supportive of it. They will need to make another move for sure, but I like the direction they're going in.

And going back to my first of these more recent posts (which I made prior to any knowledge of this trade), the current group has clearly plateaued and gotten to a point where they weren't going to get appreciably better without change. I know one poster disagreed with that a little, but even that poster acknowledged that we are not on par with the top teams in the conference, which is pretty obvious from looking at the results. So I'm glad they have shaken it up a little, and this is not at all a shakeup done out of desperation or impetuosity. They have been chasing this guy for over a year now. The fact that the Raptors turned down three first rounders for him last year and are only now moving him because they need to blow the team up due to the rest of the roster being so bad says a lot to me.

I also read that Quick was in line for starter-like money, even though he's not a starter. Financially, that doesn't make sense, especially if the Knicks are looking at their future...kinda what Boston did to the Knicks when they dumped salary with Fournier (?). But I have to admit that I'll miss the Quick, he was fun to watch

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 31, 2023, 03:02:18 PMI also read that Quick was in line for starter-like money, even though he's not a starter. Financially, that doesn't make sense, especially if the Knicks are looking at their future...kinda what Boston did to the Knicks when they dumped salary with Fournier (?). But I have to admit that I'll miss the Quick, he was fun to watch

Correct. The Knicks were discussing extensions with Quickley, and they were very far off in the negotiations. He needs more minutes than the Knicks can give him (with Brunson on the roaster) to realize his value.

Quickley is one of those guys who is too good to be a sixth man but not quite good enough to be the face of a franchise type guy that you want to have control of the game in a huge spot with five minutes to go. And let me be very clear: that is not a dig on him. I think he's very good. I just don't think he's elite, and I think the Knicks didn't want to get forced into some situation where they're paying him $30mm a year over the next six years given the other needs they have.

I like this trade a lot. I'm on record with that. I think Anunoby is going to be a great fit on this roster.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 31, 2023, 11:36:14 AMhttps://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741399886212317335

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 31, 2023, 11:36:14 AMhttps://twitter.com/BigKnickEnergy_/status/1741399886212317335

So who replaces Randle as starter?

Who is Mike Scotto?  Does he have any credibility?

I think the trade was good for both teams which is probably the way trades should be made (unless the GM is a Gettleman type).  Last year, the Raptors had multiple chances to trade Van Fleet (sp?) and didn't and ended up with nothing. Personally, I think OG was pretty close to what the Knicks needed and the Precious a guy will also help in a position of need considering the current need at backup center.  Barrett is ok but I don't think will ever be a game changer and I think is easily replaceable.  Quickley will be harder to replace but he's still a bench player although a very good one but he wasn't going to be a starter here unless Brunson got hurt.  Good becnch players are hard to find but easier than quality starters like OG.  But both Barrett and especially Quickley will make the Raptors better but I don't think enough to do much in the playoffs assuming they even get in.  And, that duo is a lot better than losing OG for nothing. 

Quote from: nb587 on December 31, 2023, 06:31:52 PMWho is Mike Scotto?  Does he have any credibility?

I think the trade was good for both teams which is probably the way trades should be made (unless the GM is a Gettleman type).  Last year, the Raptors had multiple chances to trade Van Fleet (sp?) and didn't and ended up with nothing. Personally, I think OG was pretty close to what the Knicks needed and the Precious a guy will also help in a position of need considering the current need at backup center.  Barrett is ok but I don't think will ever be a game changer and I think is easily replaceable.  Quickley will be harder to replace but he's still a bench player although a very good one but he wasn't going to be a starter here unless Brunson got hurt.  Good becnch players are hard to find but easier than quality starters like OG.  But both Barrett and especially Quickley will make the Raptors better but I don't think enough to do much in the playoffs assuming they even get in.  And, that duo is a lot better than losing OG for nothing. 

I can't legitimately vouch for Scotto, but he's a former NY1 producer with a Knicks focus, so presumably he has some ties into the NY sports media world. I will call what he tweeted more speculation than anything else. I'm not going to assign bona fide credibility to it, but we have all heard various rumors the last year or two about them trading Randle.

Randle is a UFA in two offseasons. Meanwhile the cap has gone up. His contract isn't as burdensome as it was two years ago, and (as noted in this thread) he is playing well. I would think he wouldn't be nearly as difficult to move as he was a year or two ago.

I'm trying to figure out the Knicks' lineup now that the team has been remade. IMO, Hart is a major player on this team and he's been used as Randle's backup at PF, when he's really a SF. With the addition of Anunoby (who I'm going to start calling O.G. like "Oh-jee" for convenience) and Precious Achiuwa, I assume Precious will become Randle's backup and Hart will then move back to SF and backup Ohjee...which is where Hart is at his best IMO. So I see it as follows:

PG: Brunson, backups Flynn, DiVincenzo, or Deuce?
SG: DiVincenzo, backups Grimes, Flynn?
SF: Ohjee, backup Hart and Grimes
PF: Randle, Precious and Hart
C: Mitch, backups Hartenstein, Sims

I know next to nothing about Malachi Flynn except that he's 25 yrs old, 6'1", a guard who played a San Diego State and was drafted in the first round by Toronto in 2020. Maybe he becomes Brunson's primary backup at the 1 spot or maybe he's going to be used more as an off guard like DiVincenzo 

Hopefully, he doesn't get used the way Thibs uses Fournier - not at all!

Using this as a guide, if we trade Randle, what kind of player best suits the Knicks going forward? I keep reading rumors that the Knicks are still interested in Donovan Mitchell, but I'm not sure how he would fit into the scheme of things, You certainly don't want to take away court time from Brunson, and not sure a backcourt of Brunson/Mitchell would gel...thinking of the old saying that "two heads cannot lead"...not to mention one of the reasons we let Quick go was because we have a glut at guard 

Just thinking out loud as I wonder what kind of trade the Knicks would be interested in if they are going to make another move. The only one that makes sense (IMHO) if they trade Randle, is to get a better PF in return. Any thoughts?

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on January 01, 2024, 11:43:47 AMI'm trying to figure out the Knicks' lineup now that the team has been remade. IMO, Hart is a major player on this team and he's been used as Randle's backup at PF, when he's really a SF. With the addition of Anunoby (who I'm going to start calling O.G. like "Oh-jee" for convenience) and Precious Achiuwa, I assume Precious will become Randle's backup and Hart will then move back to SF and backup Ohjee...which is where Hart is at his best IMO. So I see it as follows:

PG: Brunson, backups Flynn, DiVincenzo, or Deuce?
SG: DiVincenzo, backups Grimes, Flynn?
SF: Ohjee, backup Hart and Grimes
PF: Randle, Precious and Hart
C: Mitch, backups Hartenstein, Sims

I know next to nothing about Malachi Flynn except that he's 25 yrs old, 6'1", a guard who played a San Diego State and was drafted in the first round by Toronto in 2020. Maybe he becomes Brunson's primary backup at the 1 spot or maybe he's going to be used more as an off guard like DiVincenzo 

Hopefully, he doesn't get used the way Thibs uses Fournier - not at all!

Using this as a guide, if we trade Randle, what kind of player best suits the Knicks going forward? I keep reading rumors that the Knicks are still interested in Donovan Mitchell, but I'm not sure how he would fit into the scheme of things, You certainly don't want to take away court time from Brunson, and not sure a backcourt of Brunson/Mitchell would gel...thinking of the old saying that "two heads cannot lead"...not to mention one of the reasons we let Quick go was because we have a glut at guard 

Just thinking out loud as I wonder what kind of trade the Knicks would be interested in if they are going to make another move. The only one that makes sense (IMHO) if they trade Randle, is to get a better PF in return. Any thoughts?

Mitchell and Dejaunte Murray come up a lot. Out of those two, I like Murray a lot more, but there is no doubt Mitchell brings some potent scoring ability to the table.

If Randle were gone it would leave a bit of a hole at the power forward position. OG is versatile and and can D-up on guards, swingmen, and power forwards, but he doesn't have the rebounding capability that Randle does.

I think if they moved Randle they'd need some sort of replacement for him. It wouldn't have to be an exceptional player if they were getting a high quality 2 like Murray or Mitchell, but they'd need another banger, because OG is really a 3 and Robinson is very clearly a 5 and a 5 only.

Unclear at this point.

I have trouble conjuring up a trade that includes Randall and doesnt bring back a power forward.  I also dont see them trading for Mitchell if only because Cleveland gave up a ton for him and I cant see the Knicjs offering anything remotely close to what Cleveland would ask for.  Plus, he doesn't play defense. 

I don't know much about Murray but have read that the Knicks and Lakers are interested.  Maybe someone can weigh in on what he brings to the table

Quote from: nb587 on January 02, 2024, 05:49:35 PMI don't know much about Murray but have read that the Knicks and Lakers are interested.  Maybe someone can weigh in on what he brings to the table

27 year old, 20 PPG Shooting guard who is an excellent defender and can hit threes. Has been all NBA defense 2nd team. Distributes the ball well too (average 9.2 APG one year). Was an all star last year. Really good all-around player. I strongly prefer him to Mitchell.

Thanks DB.  Thats a player that would help although I dont see creating a weakness at PF to bring back a SG although a guy that could score and play defense well is a major plus.  If the line about Randle is true, a bigger deal and other teams would be involved

Quote from: nb587 on January 03, 2024, 07:54:11 AMThanks DB.  Thats a player that would help although I dont see creating a weakness at PF to bring back a SG although a guy that could score and play defense well is a major plus.  If the line about Randle is true, a bigger deal and other teams would be involved

Very fair point NB, and I can't argue it whatsoever. I'm not sure what the plan would be at the 4 if we move Randle. Hart isn't really a 4, and our other bigs are clear centers. Anunoby is very clearly a 3.

I'm not sure who would take over at the 4 if we were to do some sort of a trade involving sending Randle plus picks to SA for Murray. It would probably end up being some lesser player. Hart can help a little there, but he's not really a replacement for Randle.