Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 19, 2024, 07:10:49 PMWhat was sick about that opening game against Dallas, was that there was all this hope and enthusiasm as the first drive of the game saw the Giants moving the ball with ease, driven off of Barkley and Jones legs. Third and two at the Dallas 8 yard line and then the Football gods smite the Giants. A false start and then a bad snap and it's time to bring on the FG Unit. And then the killer. A blocked punt returned for a TD.

I remember thinking, this season isn't going to go the way it did last year.

Dallas drives for a FG and then Jones completes a pass to Barkley who takes a bit, coughs up the ball, popping it up for a pick 6 and just like that, it's 16-0. Can't make this s#it up.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 19, 2024, 07:17:23 PMDallas drives for a FG and then Jones completes a pass to Barkley who takes a bit, coughs up the ball, popping it up for a pick 6 and just like that, it's 16-0. Can't make this s#it up.

DJ rolls to the sideline and throws an interception, the a near interception and a missed FG. Then a dropped pass, DJ not seeing his checkdowns taking sacks and yada yada yada, it's 26-0 at halftime.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

All of the legitimate issues around the lack of support for Jones are indeed valid. Despite those issues, Jones is not the quarterback this franchise needs. The offensive line, the receivers, the play calling, the myriad of coordinators and offensive systems, the injuries... every imaginable reason for him to not live up to his potential are just masking the reality that the Giants are indeed mired in QB hell.

Did we not have a SB qb who had something left in the tank retire? I bet it had something to do with seeing no end to getting beat up behind the o line.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 19, 2024, 07:32:45 PMDJ rolls to the sideline and throws an interception, the a near interception and a missed FG. Then a dropped pass, DJ not seeing his checkdowns taking sacks and yada yada yada, it's 26-0 at halftime.

The rest of this game was more mistakes and fumbles that broke for Dallas and their pass rush dominating the Giants O line killing DJ although there were times Jones would roll right to avoid pressure instead of stepping up in the pocket. Daboll and Kafka had no plan to offset that rush trailing by five scores. This was a total team loss. Loss of momentum and a head killer to start the season. 

Quote from: jimc on February 19, 2024, 07:56:56 PMDid we not have a SB qb who had something left in the tank retire? I bet it had something to do with seeing no end to getting beat up behind the o line.

Or...it could be he was 37 and  past the age of organic decline for most QBs of his era; Brady, and to the lesser extend Brees, created an unrealistic expectation that QBs can play at high-levels into thier 40s.  The reality is, most decline in the thier mid-30s.  Consider the QBs selected in Eli's draft class: Big Ben and Rivers both began steep declines at at, or before 37 years old. For recent examples, see Russel Wilson and AAron Rodgers. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 19, 2024, 07:10:49 PMWhat was sick about that opening game against Dallas, was that there was all this hope and enthusiasm as the first drive of the game saw the Giants moving the ball with ease, driven off of Barkley and Jones legs. Third and two at the Dallas 8 yard line and then the Football gods smite the Giants. A false start and then a bad snap and it's time to bring on the FG Unit. And then the killer. A blocked punt returned for a TD.

I remember thinking, this season isn't going to go the way it did last year.

Ed and to all,

I've noticed that you watched the Dallas game again just like I did, so this may be of some interest to you.

Here are the highlights of the Seahawks game from week 4, and I wanted you and anyone else who may be interested to see three of the sacks DJ takes in that game, so they can see the pressure he was under.

The time stamps to see them are at the 1:50 mark, 2:41 mark, and finally 7:07 mark.

He was sacked a total of six times in that game, let me know what you think? and if the O line bears any responsibility for his performance?

Video down below

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 19, 2024, 09:41:55 PMEd and to all,

I've noticed that you watched the Dallas game again just like I did, so this may be of some interest to you.

Here are the highlights of the Seahawks game from week 4, and I wanted you and anyone else who may be interested to see three of the sacks DJ takes in that game, so they can see the pressure he was under.

The time stamps to see them are at the 1:50 mark, 2:41 mark, and finally 7:07 mark.

He was sacked a total of six times in that game, let me know what you think? and if the O line bears any responsibility for his performance?

Video down below

DJ was sacked 11, not 6 times in the week 4 Seattle game; in fact, most pundits made the opposite point you're making here.  While you're highlighting 3 sacks, there were 8 others to consider.  BBH own post game discussion mimicked the pundits, where we surmised DJ was responsible for at least 6 sacks in that game.  If memory recalls, Ed provided a pretty in-depth analysis of the game, which you can probably find.  It was really good...

"A number of those sacks were on him," Esiason said on WFAN on Tuesday. "They're not all on the offensive line. He has to react accordingly when those blitzes start happening and guys come free. That's the troubling part for me."

"Dan Orlovsky claims only 4/11 sacks against the Seahawks were on the Giants OL and breaks down Daniel Jones' QB mistakes"

The Seattle game precisely highlight DJ's biggest fallacies; he doesn't read the field well, nor is he capable of making anticipatory throws through tight windows. To be clear, I'm not suggesting his line is even adequate; I also believe his play will improve when/if surrounded by more skilled players. However, even with an average-to-above-average OL, the data suggest his ceiling is average to slightly-above-average QB. It's hard to be a top 10 passing QB with his limitations.   

Do you believe there's a symbiotic relationship between the line and QB?  If the latter fails to read blitzes, panics, make quick decisions or anticipatory throws, it can make the offensive line look worse than it is.  That's the real story from the game you highlighted... 

speaking of which

Worst quarterbacks in terms of allowing pressures to be converted into sacks in 2023 (PFF)

1. Tommy DeVito (37% of pressures turned into sacks)
2. Daniel Jones (32%)
3. Ryan Tannehill (30%)
4. Bryce Young (25%)
5. Zach Wilson (24%)

So DJ was responsible for nearly 1 in 3 of his sacks. Awful. Worst contract in Giants histroy.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 19, 2024, 09:41:55 PMEd and to all,

I've noticed that you watched the Dallas game again just like I did, so this may be of some interest to you.

Here are the highlights of the Seahawks game from week 4, and I wanted you and anyone else who may be interested to see three of the sacks DJ takes in that game, so they can see the pressure he was under.

The time stamps to see them are at the 1:50 mark, 2:41 mark, and finally 7:07 mark.

He was sacked a total of six times in that game, let me know what you think? and if the O line bears any responsibility for his performance?

Video down below

The first sack it was 5 on 5 as the TE was not blocking but going out and the RB was going for a swing pass as he was set right side too but that edge had to cover him. It was clear that in Zone the Safety didn't hide he was blitzing pre-Snap. Jones should have moved the RB and it looks like it was Breda to the left side to pick him up and then hit the hot read vacated in the coverage. At that point the TE should have stayed in to block. There was 17 seconds on the clock so there was plenty of time. DJ never saw it coming but was fixed on the Swing Pass and the TE on the right side. This was all DJ's credit for the sack.

Until Daniel Jones learns to look off a defender in the secondary he will be nothing more than mediocre.

Although people on BBH have disagreed in the past and stated it was an over rated and somewhat unnecessary skill in order to succeed, it was highlighted over and over in this years playoff and championship games - especially with regards to Mahomes.

Jones is the ABSOLUTE WORST in the NFL at locking on a receiver. If he refuses to work on this then he will be much of the same. My frustration is that we rarely if ever see him even dropping back in practice throws and attempt to develop good habits. Maybe it is coaching?....which would open an entire new can of worms

On the second sack, the QB needs to be know the blocking scheme, which I'm sure he did in a Jumbo Formation with two Tackles in the right side all blocking Zone Left. Nobody was blocking the free release on that right side and he never picked up on it. Not only that but trying to get escape he held the ball like a loaf of bread which resulted in a strip and a turnover.

Finally, DJ had a choice between WDR and Breda and he didn't pull the trigger. Robinson needed to make a cleaner cut inside but it was one Defender on two. The Mike came in to cover WDR when DJ hesitated as he gave up on Waller, who was then open but DJ was fixed on that right side so he passed him off to the high Safety. Again on DJ. He had options and panicked.

the bottom line is these type of discussions and debates should be happening for a ROOKIE or second year player, not a player going into year 6 making as the 6th highest paid player in the league. I say this sincerely but how does Jones still have any supporters left? Because he is a "Good guy" and "works hard"?

Quote from: kingm56 on February 19, 2024, 10:17:13 PMDJ was sacked 11 times in the week 4 Seattle game; in fact, most pundits made the exact opposite point you're making here.  While you're highlighting 3 sacks, there were 8 others to consider.  BBH own post game discussion mimicked the pundits, where we surmised DJ was responsible for at least 6 sacks in that game.

"A number of those sacks were on him," Esiason said on WFAN on Tuesday. "They're not all on the offensive line. He has to react accordingly when those blitzes start happening and guys come free. That's the troubling part for me."

"Dan Orlovsky claims only 4/11 sacks against the Seahawks were on the Giants OL and breaks down Daniel Jones' QB mistakes"

The Seattle game precisely highlight DJ's biggest fallacies; he doesn't read the field well, nor is he capable of making anticipatory throws through tight windows. To be clear, I'm not suggesting his line is even adequate; I also believe his play will improve when/if surrounded by more skilled players. However, even with an average-to-above-average OL, the data suggest his ceiling is an average-to-slightly above average QB. It's hard to be a top 10 passing QB with his limitations. 

Do you agree with the pundits? 

Actually, this is incorrect and here is why.

A) DJ was not sacked 11 times but 10 times in that game, one of those sacks was on Paris Campbell.

B) Second, using pundits like Dan Orlovsky and Boomer Esiason, is not doing your own research to see if these things are true. This is what is known as the "appeal to authority" and this is a logical fallacy. Just because a former player says something doesn't make it true.

And this is why I completely disagree with your statements, with regards to this game, and now I shall explain why.

You see I watched the game, the entire game, and I saw all 10 sacks and how they were attributed. Would you like to know how they came about? and the truth? Outside of one sack the other nine were all on the offensive line, and it was brutal.

Let me further elucidate.

Since you like to use pundits, I will now quote from the announcers who were actually at the game - Troy Aikman and Joe Buck -

Troy Aikman said from the opening snap that "his offensive line has struggled through three games", do you agree with him or no?

Joe Buck said in the 3rd quarter after DJ had been sacked six times, he said "There is just no time for Jones".

Joe Buck says again, "as he's ready to throw he's got 3 players in his face".

4th Quarter he's sacked for the 7th time, and Joe Buck says again, "there is just no chance for Daniel Jones."

4th Quarter again, Joe Buck says, "Jones has absolutely no time" as he's sacked for the 8th time.

OT Ezudu was run right by the DE, then Aikman says that is eight sacks on the night, this is crazy. Neither Buck nor Aikman blamed Jones, they defended him, saying he is one tough dude, and realized his O line was absolute garbage.

As Jones was sacked for the 9th time in the 4th quarter, he has absolutely no time.

Aikman begins to say "why is DJ still in the ball game?"

On his 10th sack he has absolutely no time, LT was beat again like a drum.

On his 11th sack the LT was beat badly again, keep in mind Andrew Thomas was not the starting LT.

So, since you like to quote pundits, were Aikman and Buck lying? or were they telling the truth? Please tell us all?

So once again if you want to prove me wrong, then you can go ahead and buy NFL Premium Plus like I have, and you can watch the condensed game in just 30 minutes. I did, so go ahead and do it, and show me and all of us why I am wrong?

I'll wait....