Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: T200 on July 14, 2024, 09:40:25 AMWhen you said that a QB isn't doing his job if he's "scanning the field looking for wayward receivers instead of going through his progressions."

I said nothing of the sort.

Additionally, I fully understand a QB's progression for any given play. Having a full field view is similar to scanning the defense before the snap. The QB has a primary play and he audibles based on what he sees at the line.

By your reasoning, if the DB covering a QB's 2nd or 3rd read falls down, leaving the receiver open, the QB should still go through his progressions.

The QB's job is to find open receivers and move the ball down the field.

Tim,

Look at this diagram.  If receiver number 4 is immediately open due to a failure of the covering defender, how is a QB going to see that until he is at least at his 2nd read if not sooner?

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 09:48:11 AMTim,

Look at this diagram.  If receiver number 4 is immediately open due to a failure of the covering defender, how is a QB going to see that until he is at least at his 2nd read if not sooner?

If he views the entire field instead of locking onto his first read, there's a chance he sees it.

You already know that's been the knock on Jones. He has poor field vision and pretty much does exactly what he's told to do.

Well... plays don't always develop as designed and therefore there will always be a need to improvise.

Look at the pick-6 Jones threw that sent Daboll over the edge. He did what he was told to do instead of seeing the open receiver behind his initial target.

Quote from: T200 on July 14, 2024, 09:58:37 AMIf he views the entire field instead of locking onto his first read, there's a chance he sees it.

You already know that's been the knock on Jones. He has poor field vision and pretty much does exactly what he's told to do.

Well... plays don't always develop as designed and therefore there will always be a need to improvise.

Look at the pick-6 Jones threw that sent Daboll over the edge. He did what he was told to do instead of seeing the open receiver behind his initial target.

Tim,

Something being a "knock on Jones" doesn't make it true in my mind.  Even Daboll has said that when a receiver runs a wrong route, he doesn't consider him open.

At this point, it seems like we are going round and round.  Clearly, we don't see eye to eye on what a QB can and can't see and process during the 2 seconds or so a play is being run.  So, let's agree to disagree.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 10:01:58 AMTim,

Something being a "knock on Jones" doesn't make it true in my mind.  Even Daboll has said that when a receiver runs a wrong route, he doesn't consider him open.

At this point, it seems like we are going round and round.  Clearly, we don't see eye to eye on what a QB can and can't see and process during the 2 seconds or so a play is being run.  So, let's agree to disagree.

Well, I have given you some food for thought and real examples to show what I'm talking about.

Daboll saying he doesn't consider a receiver running a wrong route is simply a statement to cover for Jones. Plain and simple.

I get that your view isn't going to change.

 

Quote from: T200 on July 14, 2024, 10:08:03 AMWell, I have given you some food for thought and real examples to show what I'm talking about.

Daboll saying he doesn't consider a receiver running a wrong route is simply a statement to cover for Jones. Plain and simple.

I get that your view isn't going to change.

 

Tim,

The part in bold is your speculation, not a fact.   Considering it was not an interview but just a discussion, there is no reason for Daboll "to cover for Jones" in that situation.  In fact, to believe the claim made, one needs to assume (without a factual basis) that Daboll lies to his coworkers.

No matter how you slice it Rich, it doesn't mean you are right. Many QBs have the INTANGIBLE and UNCANNY ability to SEE things on the field and adjust ON THE FLY. To me, it is called internal processing. Archie Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning and Dan Fouts were excellent at it. Peyton is on record many times stating how he reacted to recievers doing something unscripted.

Quote from: Trench on July 14, 2024, 10:41:45 AMNo matter how you slice it Rich, it doesn't mean you are right. Many QBs have the INTANGIBLE and UNCANNY ability to SEE things on the field and adjust ON THE FLY. To me, it is called internal processing. Archie Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning and Dan Fouts were excellent at it. Peyton is on record many times stating how he reacted to recievers doing something unscripted.

So what you are saying, is that you are the one that's is really right and that I am wrong.  Is that what you are saying?  I always allow the possibility that I am wrong.  Although I will say when you consider the countless books, podcasts, and videos I have consumed to learn all I could about the game of football if I am wrong, it's certainly not due to a lack of knowledge of the game.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 10:37:22 AMTim,

The part in bold is your speculation, not a fact.   Considering it was not an interview but just a discussion, there is no reason for Daboll "to cover for Jones" in that situation.  In fact, to believe the claim made, one needs to assume (without a factual basis) that Daboll lies to his coworkers.

Rich,

I don't know the context of the discussion you mentioned. I do know that in conversations, people aren't always 100% truthful. Things are said in such a way to elicit a response or an action.

I guarantee that if Jones threw a TD pass to a receiver who ran a wrong route, Daboll would be cheering and celebrating just like the rest of us.

I expect Hyatt to achieve at a minimum the following:

50 catches - 650 yards - 5 TDs

Quote from: T200 on July 14, 2024, 10:51:33 AMRich,

I don't know the context of the discussion you mentioned. I do know that in conversations, people aren't always 100% truthful. Things are sad in such a way to elicit a response or an action.

I guarantee that if Jones threw a TD pass to a receiver who ran a wrong route, Daboll would be cheering and celebrating just like the rest of us.

I've seen Nabors improvise on the fly so DJ had better look for him when he's rolling out avoiding the rush.

The starting QB who Hyatt had most of his reps with got injured rather early in the season. But even before that the Giants were giving Hyatt few if any opportunities, either because of some undisclosed locker room issues or because he didn't fit our grand vision of fielding the most unwatchable offense in modern NFL history.

I am of the opinion that when you have a guy whose talents make him a legitimate deep threat you put him the hell out there, warts and all, so that opposing defenses at least have to think about you going downfield a little. But that's just me.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 10:45:10 AMSo what you are saying, is that you are the one that's is really right and that I am wrong.  Is that what you are saying?  I always allow the possibility that I am wrong.  Although I will say when you consider the countless books, podcasts, and videos I have consumed to learn all I could about the game of football if I am wrong, it's certainly not due to a lack of knowledge of the game.

My post was missing one word "always" right (which many of the times in my opinion, you are) and I apologize for that as I've been off the site all day until now . As written my post it appeared to be overly aggressive and that was not my intent.

Respectfully, and I sincerely mean (respectfully) yes, I will stick to my firm belief that I do believe in this instance I am correct (as I've given solid examples of QBs who adjust on the fly and had an ability to see the field and at times hit the receiver who wasn't the intended one) as the play was drawn up.

Quote from: Trench on July 14, 2024, 06:52:14 PMMy post was missing one word "always" right (which many of the times in my opinion, you are) and I apologize for that as I've been off the site all day until now . As written my post it appeared to be overly aggressive and that was not my intent.

Respectfully, and I sincerely mean (respectfully) yes, I will stick to my firm belief that I do believe in this instance I am correct (as I've given solid examples of QBs who adjust on the fly and had an ability to see the field and at times hit the receiver who wasn't the intended one) as the play was drawn up.

No worries, we all (myself included) can become overly passionate when discussing our team.  I appreciate your views, and I (and I am sure you) are hopeful that this is a discussion that becomes irrelevant either because DJ is playing much better or the Giants have found a better alternative.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 15, 2024, 07:05:17 AMNo worries, we all (myself included) can become overly passionate when discussing our team.  I appreciate your views, and I (and I am sure you) are hopeful that this is a discussion that becomes irrelevant either because DJ is playing much better or the Giants have found a better alternative.

Thank you for that.

I pray that happens. The guy has so many GREAT traits. Easy to root for. Something that gives me internal conflict (and positive hope) on my assessment is when I hear Eli speak glowingly.

My question is simple

How long should we be content to endure
Jones below par successes before we have the right as fans to demand a QB change?

Tommy and Tyrod outplayed jones last year but they just keep sending jones out there

When are you "What your record says you
Are". Is 5 years enough.  Shall we double that and wait 10?