Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 08, 2024, 08:56:48 PMMara openly said to media while in negotiations that the Giants did everything to screw up Daniel Jones. A absolutely moronic thing to do. What do you think he was saying behind closed doors to Schoen? Mara has been unable to see Jones as a sunk cost and instead has attempted (desperately) to find reasons to keep Jones and pretend like Gentleman didn't set the franchise back a decade with equally-moronic and outdated methodologies.

And in the end, Schoen will take the fall.  He will have to keep his mouth shut because if he comes out and throws Mara under the bus, then nobody else will hire him. 

Quote from: TONKA56 on September 08, 2024, 08:05:26 PMUnfortunately Jones is a symptom, not the "real" problem.

Hard to say he isn't the real problem when he's been the 1 constant over 6 seasons.

Quote from: coggs on September 08, 2024, 09:02:30 PMAnd in the end, Schoen will take the fall.  He will have to keep his mouth shut because if he comes out and throws Mara under the bus, then nobody else will hire him.

Schoen tried to move on by moving up to take Maye (don't believe those who try to tell you he didn't "really" try). No way he does that without Mara's blessing. So I think he'll get that opportunity this next off-season.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 08, 2024, 09:11:04 PMSchoen tried to move on by moving up to take Maye (don't believe those who try to tell you he didn't "really" try). No way he does that without Mara's blessing. So I think he'll get that opportunity this next off-season.

Concur, he's getting one or two more years to draft a QB.  As a few of us said during HN, we weren't privy to the closed-door conversations.  It's possible our GM predicted this season, and relayed said concerns to Mara, which is why they tried to draft a QB.  If he accurately predicted DJ's trajectory, he absolutely gets another opportunity, with his own QB. 

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 08, 2024, 09:11:04 PMSchoen tried to move on by moving up to take Maye (don't believe those who try to tell you he didn't "really" try). No way he does that without Mara's blessing. So I think he'll get that opportunity this next off-season.

I am not so sure.  Mara seems to be very concerned with fan opinion.  Just look at what happened to McAdoo after the uproar over starting Geno and benching Eli.  It was one game, they lost and he cut him and Reese loose.  The same McAdoo who wanted them to trade up to take Mahomes by all reports.

Secondly, if they were able to trade-up to get Maye, they still were not cutting Jones this year.  Cap hit to cut him would be bigger than keeping him.  Also don't think Maye would have started right today anyway.  I do get it though, at least we could see a plan to eventually hand it off to Maye the way they handed it off to Jones and even Eli in 2004.

Quote from: coggs on September 08, 2024, 09:34:36 PMI am not so sure.  Mara seems to be very concerned with fan opinion.  Just look at what happened to McAdoo after the uproar over starting Geno and benching Eli.  It was one game, they lost and he cut him and Reese loose.  The same McAdoo who wanted them to trade up to take Mahomes by all reports.

Secondly, if they were able to trade-up to get Maye, they still were not cutting Jones this year.  Cap hit to cut him would be bigger than keeping him.  Also don't think Maye would have started right today anyway.  I do get it though, at least we could see a plan to eventually hand it off to Maye the way they handed it off to Jones and even Eli in 2004.

I agree with the points about Maye. My point is different: if you trusted Schoen to make the call on the new QB, what about this season has changed that? It's clear he was right to try and move on from DJ. I don't see why he wouldn't give him that opportunity in 2025. If anything, DJ playing well would call into question Schoen's decisionmaking, not the opposite.

Now, does any of this mean Mara will make a cogent, consistent, and clear-eyed decision? Hell no.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on September 08, 2024, 09:06:34 PMHard to say he isn't the real problem when he's been the 1 constant over 6 seasons.

Look, Jones sucks, but there's a reason why we are still having the conversation. 

The fact is Jones has never been a very good QB...not in HS, college or the pros...so why does anyone think that is going to change?  I don't get it.  He is bad, he is a back up not a franchise QB and the Giants made a bad pick and set the franchise back a decade.  So what do the Giants do?  They bid against themselves and overpay this guy. Throw good money after bad.  Only the Giants.    After watching Hard Knocks I actually would fire all the scouts along with the GM.  They don't do a great job at evaluating talent and how that talent will translate into the NFL.  Roughly 70 picks in 10 years and what, 10 really good players?  How many real play makers on either side of the ball?
The GM doesn't have a clear vision.  Get better duh.  What type of team is he building??  Fast, Physical, high effort, running team, passing team??  What type of players and locker room does he want?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 08, 2024, 09:48:52 PMI agree with the points about Maye. My point is different: if you trusted Schoen to make the call on the new QB, what about this season has changed that? It's clear he was right to try and move on from DJ. I don't see why he wouldn't give him that opportunity in 2025. If anything, DJ playing well would call into question Schoen's decision making, not the opposite.

Now, does any of this mean Mara will make a cogent, consistent, and clear-eyed decision? Hell no.

OK, I hear what you are saying and it makes total sense.  And agree on wondering what Mara would do.  Like I said, think he is VERY concerned with the court of public opinion.

When the deal was signed in 2023 it was obvious he would be here for 2 years and the last 2 were really two 1-year team options as that is when he could realistically be cut.  I also said he would NEVER play on the 4th year with the cap hit.  IF he was good enough, they would re-do the deal.  With that in mind and what happened last year, and what seems to be the consensus that he wanted a QB.  Could fully see the conversation between Mara and Schoen last January being something like Schoen saying, "Jones is done.  We are stuck with him for another season.  I will try to move up and get a QB or hope one of the guys we love fall to us.  But, we may have to sacrifice next season with him playing if we can't get something better."  It is not realistic to say Schoen didnt try to move up.  NE needed a QB too, and they may not have been willing to make a deal.  Can't say he should have done whatever he had to do to make it happen.  Well, what if the price was the Giants 1sts and 2nds in 2024, 2025, and 2026 to make it happen?

Quote from: TONKA56 on September 08, 2024, 09:53:40 PMLook, Jones sucks, but there's a reason why we are still having the conversation. 

Yes, he's still the starting QB

Quote from: MrGap92 on September 08, 2024, 10:50:40 PMYes, he's still the starting QB

Lol. You don't believe a better run organization would have moved on by now?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on September 08, 2024, 09:06:34 PMHard to say he isn't the real problem when he's been the 1 constant over 6 seasons.

The Maras haven't been a constant? When was the team sold?  Did the "could have been a general manager in this league" Chris Mara find new employment?

The Giants need a quarterback. However I believe that the inclination that a new quarterback,even one with all-pro potential is going to provide a transformative silver bullet to the organization is a comforting fantasy which many fans indulge.

Quote from: TONKA56 on September 09, 2024, 07:15:40 AMThe Maras haven't been a constant? When was the team sold?  Did the "could have been a general manager in this league" Chris Mara find new employment?

The Giants need a quarterback. However I believe that the inclination that a new quarterback,even one with all-pro potential is going to provide a transformative silver bullet to the organization is a comforting fantasy which many fans indulge.

Enough, the Maras do not meddle like many claim

Yes other teams would have held onto Jones much less, but realistically, the year prior when he signed there were no better options.

They tried to move on this year and weren't able to trade up, there were 3 QB needy teams ahead of them, they weren't able to get the guy they wanted.

If the Maras were such an issue we would have been bad during the Coughlin era if they were this horrible as owners.

John Mara IS the issue. He's the reason Jones got PAID.

Each week we roll him out to suck again is another week closer to him getting injured AGAIN which kicks in his salary guarantee for next season.

If that happens....we're Royally screwed!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on September 09, 2024, 08:12:36 AMJohn Mara IS the issue. He's the reason Jones got PAID.

Each week we roll him out to suck again is another week closer to him getting injured AGAIN which kicks in his salary guarantee for next season.

If that happens....we're Royally screwed!


Based on what evidence?

If he was that instrumental in him getting paid and signed, I am sure he would not be OK with Schoen trying to replace him on television for the world to see, while giving him millions of dollars.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro