Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 01, 2024, 09:00:35 AMThere's next to no chance you get more than a 5th rounder for either one of those guys. And they might even have to throw in a 6th rounder just to get the 5th.

Any notion that a team is going to pay more than a 5th for half a year of those guys is ludicrous.

Diontae Johnson, a guy with an actual 1000+ receiving season in his career, just got traded for the pick swap you mentioned. I have a hard time seeing Slayton bring back more.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 31, 2024, 04:30:53 PMHe may actually be better than Thibs. Sure you want to do that?

I think Thibs is a good deal better than Ojulari. Ojulari is a fine pass rusher and if they had taken a QB last year and were building for a playoff run immediately I'd feel differently.  But they're not going to sign him when he becomes a free agent so they might as well get something for him now. Just like they should have done with Barkley and McKinney last year.  Please don't repeat mistakes!

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on November 01, 2024, 09:09:27 AMDiontae Johnson, a guy with an actual 1000+ receiving season in his career, just got traded for the pick swap you mentioned. I have a hard time seeing Slayton bring back more.

Exactly!

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 01, 2024, 09:00:35 AMThere's next to no chance you get more than a 5th rounder for either one of those guys. And they might even have to throw in a 6th rounder just to get the 5th.

Any notion that a team is going to pay more than a 5th for half a year of those guys is ludicrous.

The fallacy lies in the assertion that you believe the team that traded for them would have no desire to re-sign both of these players to long term contracts.

If Ojulari produces 13 sacks this year, which he is projected to do, then a team that trades for him will give up much more than a 5th or 6th rd pick. They would be securing the rights to re-sign him long term, as he is only 24 years old.

He is in his prime and is going to demand some draft capital.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 01, 2024, 11:41:48 AMThe fallacy lies in the assertion that you believe the team that traded for them would have no desire to re-sign both of these players to long term contracts.

If Ojulari produces 13 sacks this year, which he is projected to do, then a team that trades for him will give up much more than a 5th or 6th rd pick. They would be securing the rights to re-sign him long term, as he is only 24 years old.

He is in his prime and is going to demand some draft capital.

In the last 2.5 years, Ojulari has 14 sacks. Josh Uche has 16.5 over that same period and was just traded for a 6th.

With Slayton, I think he is under rated because his strength is taking the top off of a defense and the deep ball has not been a strength for the Giants offense. 

Trades so far have been pretty low compensation.  Of course depending on who makes through this weekend or not with wins, losses and injuries will dictate a lot of the market. 

I would think the Lions would be in the market for a pass rusher, but not sure that Ojulari is their type of guy. There is quite a few pass rushers rumored to be on the market.

 

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 31, 2024, 04:30:53 PMHe may actually be better than Thibs. Sure you want to do that?

Given his injury history, his play against the run and it being highly unlikely that he is on the team next year, I am fine if they trade him, even for low compensation. 

I guess the alternative of keeping him could pay off if he manages to stay healthy this year, and get double digit sacks.  I could definitely see a team willing to give him a decent contract and envision him as the Robert Mathis to someone's Dwight Freeney.  And then maybe a comp pick.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 01, 2024, 12:28:39 PMWith Slayton, I think he is under rated because his strength is taking the top off of a defense and the deep ball has not been a strength for the Giants offense. 

Trades so far have been pretty low compensation.  Of course depending on who makes through this weekend or not with wins, losses and injuries will dictate a lot of the market. 

I would think the Lions would be in the market for a pass rusher, but not sure that Ojulari is their type of guy. There is quite a few pass rushers rumored to be on the market.

 
Given his injury history, his play against the run and it being highly unlikely that he is on the team next year, I am fine if they trade him, even for low compensation. 

I guess the alternative of keeping him could pay off if he manages to stay healthy this year, and get double digit sacks.  I could definitely see a team willing to give him a decent contract and envision him as the Robert Mathis to someone's Dwight Freeney.  And then maybe a comp pick.

Ojulari's Run Defense Grade is 8 points higher than Thibs. His tackling grade is 11 points higher. Neither of these players is in the conversation of All-Pro, but let's not think that he's a significant downgrade to Thibs.
 

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 01, 2024, 10:02:41 AMI think Thibs is a good deal better than Ojulari. Ojulari is a fine pass rusher and if they had taken a QB last year and were building for a playoff run immediately I'd feel differently.  But they're not going to sign him when he becomes a free agent so they might as well get something for him now. Just like they should have done with Barkley and McKinney last year.  Please don't repeat mistakes!

Exactly my point.  So what if he's on a pace for 938 yards?  Those yards are not going to make them a winning team this year, and I doubt he will want to sign back with the Giants if they can't exploit his talents.  Some competitive team with an injured WR who has noticed his production with a bad offense might find him to be a good pick-up for the stretch run and maybe a nice piece going forward, since he's only 27.

I'd be inclined to take a 5th rounder or better for him.  Fifth round isn't likely to provide a starter, and maybe not even a contributor.  OTOH there are a lot of very good players who were fifth rounders, so it's possible, if not at all likely, to get lucky and turn it into a Tyreek Hill or George Kittle or Richard Sherman or Stefon Diggs, just to name a few fifth rounders. 

Also, trading him would be a more ethical way to dump the season.  So they would get a minor draft pick, about $1 million in CAP savings, and likely a better draft slot for 2025.  So looking at the larger picture I don't see that as the moronic move some do.  I don't even see it as a move that would upset the locker room because it could be sold as giving him an opportunity at playing on a winning team and making some bank going forward.  I would suggest that this larger picture is exactly the way a good GM would look at it.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 01, 2024, 11:57:36 AMIn the last 2.5 years, Ojulari has 14 sacks. Josh Uche has 16.5 over that same period and was just traded for a 6th.

Some people do not understand facts and statistics 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 01, 2024, 11:41:48 AMThe fallacy lies in the assertion that you believe the team that traded for them would have no desire to re-sign both of these players to long term contracts.

If Ojulari produces 13 sacks this year, which he is projected to do, then a team that trades for him will give up much more than a 5th or 6th rd pick. They would be securing the rights to re-sign him long term, as he is only 24 years old.

He is in his prime and is going to demand some draft capital.

Is Ojulari extrapolating the new trend?

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 01, 2024, 04:58:55 AMWhat do you think about shopping Slayton?  He's a FA at the end of the year and if they could get something for him now it might be worthwhile.  Are there any contenders that have lost a WR to injury?

Good question. My friend who is a devout Steelers fan said he read in their beat writer community that there are murmurings of interest in him in the Steelers front office. They definitely need a receiver there. They have next to nothing outside of George Pickens.

I'd be fine with dealing Slayton, but I'm just not sure you're going to get much for him. I doubt you'd get more than a six. Diontate Johnson was just dealt (similar circumstances, pending UFA) and all the Panthers got for him was a 5/6 pick swap. I'm not suggesting Diontae Johnson is light years better than Slayton, but I think most would consider him no less than comparable and probably a bit better.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 01, 2024, 11:57:36 AMIn the last 2.5 years, Ojulari has 14 sacks. Josh Uche has 16.5 over that same period and was just traded for a 6th.

This is the danger of not taking a look at context.

Josh Uche is on pace for 4.3 sacks this year.

Ojulare is on pace for 12.8 sacks, in his contract year.

Uche had 3 sacks last year, and the only year he was good was in 2022.

In sports, when you have a big year in your contract year you get rewarded handsomely and Ojulare is having a big year, whereas for Uche, we'll I think his projected 4.3 sacks speaks for itself.

As you can see there is a clear distinction between the two of them

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 01, 2024, 03:08:13 PMSome people do not understand facts and statistics 

Sadly you may want to take a look in the mirror.

Ojulari is 24 years old, and is projected for 12.8 sacks, in his contract year.

Your Uche guy is projected for 4.3 sacks this year.

As you can see big difference.

Furthermore players who have big years in their contract years get paid handsomely, whereas others who do not, well I'll let the numbers above speak for themselves.

Enjoy Extrapolating!

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 01, 2024, 05:09:56 PMThis is the danger of not taking a look at context.

Josh Uche is on pace for 4.3 sacks this year.

Ojulare is on pace for 12.8 sacks, in his contract year.

Uche had 3 sacks last year, and the only year he was good was in 2022.

In sports, when you have a big year in your contract year you get rewarded handsomely and Ojulare is having a big year, whereas for Uche, we'll I think his projected 4.3 sacks speaks for itself.

As you can see there is a clear distinction between the two of them

LOL at using 8 games as declarative "context". I also find it funny that you reference contract year perfokqnace  as a determining factor to pay someone without a hint of recognition of the oftentimes historical folly of exactly that - paying someone due to contract year performance.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 01, 2024, 01:12:11 PMOjulari's Run Defense Grade is 8 points higher than Thibs. His tackling grade is 11 points higher. Neither of these players is in the conversation of All-Pro, but let's not think that he's a significant downgrade to Thibs.
 

For me trading him is more about what I feel is a low probability of having him next year.  It would be great if they could keep Ojulari and Thibs long term , but I don't see it given the investment in Burns and Dex. 

I think Ojulari is about as good a pairing as you can get for Dex in the pass rush. They push the QB toward each other. When you add Burns it's been a pretty solid pressure group.

Ojulari's injury history is a factor in it as well.  Without that I would say you probably can't keep both he and Thibs.  Thibs would fetch more in a trade at this point .