Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2024, 02:03:38 PMHere, now stop slandering me with all your false accusations. 

         

I asked a question, you didn't answer, and now you try and use that to support your narrative!!! BRILLIANT!!!     

Quote from: T200 on November 29, 2024, 02:06:35 PM         

I asked a question, you didn't answer, and now you try and use that to support your narrative!!! BRILLIANT!!!     

Tim,

Someone has to be the grownup in the room and end this nonsense.  This discussion is over; I am done with your slander and mockery; have a good day.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2024, 02:10:59 PMTim,

Someone has to be the grownup in the room and end this nonsense.  This discussion is over; I am done with your slander and mockery; have a good day.

So you can't back up your false accusations, is that what that means? 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2024, 07:56:10 AMPlus, Daboll lost yesterday with a team with a worse QB

Rush is better than Lock. By a fairly large margin. Though he's also better than Jones and Devito.

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 29, 2024, 03:04:50 PMRush is better than Lock. By a fairly large margin. Though he's also better than Jones and Devito.

Well if we just look at Lock vs Rush in 2024

QBR

Lock- 39
Rush- 36.5

QB Rating

Lock- 61.7
Rush- 79.7

PFF Grade

Lock-  55.9
Rush-  48.0

I would say it's hard to even argue the numbers show Rush is better than Lock, much less by a "substantial margin"

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2024, 03:18:53 PMWell if we just look at Lock vs Rush in 2024

QBR

Lock- 39
Rush- 36.5

QB Rating

Lock- 61.7
Rush- 79.7

PFF Grade

Lock-  55.9
Rush-  48.0

I would say it's hard to even argue the numbers show Rush is better than Lock, much less by a "substantial margin"

Good stats. But all I need is my own eyes which shows me Rush is better - much much better!...big spots ability to get it done. That's why the former Giant QB had a lot of admirers

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2024, 03:18:53 PMWell if we just look at Lock vs Rush in 2024

QBR

Lock- 39
Rush- 36.5

QB Rating

Lock- 61.7
Rush- 79.7

PFF Grade

Lock-  55.9
Rush-  48.0

I would say it's hard to even argue the numbers show Rush is better than Lock, much less by a "substantial margin"

Lock played one game. Yesterday. And was outplayed. By Rush. How much of Locks stats were compiled in garbage time by the way? See? Not hard to argue at all.

It's sad that a critical discussion topic has to break down to "right fighting" versus debate your position on the subject itself and give us all an opportunity to chime in.

All I can say is thank you to the late Al Davis, for helping Bill Parcells in 1983, when rumors swirled around the Meadowlands that the Giants took a number on the availability of Howard Schnellenberger to replace him at the end of a similarly dumpster fire campaign. If you remember, it was Al who fed that rumor to CBS' "The NFL Today" pre-game show and laced it with scathing detail about Mara dysfunction. It pi$$ed off the Wellington Mara 50% ownership of the Giants, as well as George Young, in that it convinced Hiward to run away as fast as he could. Parcells was given the 1984 season and the rest was history.

Who's to say that giving this current regime the opportunity to choose their own "sword" (i.e. QB, LT, other skill players) that just maybe they won't fall on it and turn the corner? That's not to suggest they will or won't. But three seasons have been invested with little on the bottom line to show for it. If I remember correctly, between 1979-83, the Giants had only one playoff appearance, with a Wild Card victory, two embarrassing seasons (1980, 1983) and an unstable season for both the NFL and their team (1982) when their head coach departed. It was hardly a stable environment and Parcells made plenty of mistakes as well. We could have yelled at George Young for not choosing Dan Marino in the draft in '83 (NOTE: Instead picking Terry Kinard).

Not an exact one-for-one but you get the general idea. In today's world, Mara's #1 son is a lawyer first, businessman next who happens to have 50% ownership of the Football Giants whose value is over $7.8 billion, or fourth richest in the NFL. THAT is a game changer!

When you are playing big bucks with the Jerry Joneses of the NFL, your interests are conflicted and there's no getting around it. You are going to invest your interests in marketing, investments and building shareholder value. Micromanaging your football operation isn't a priority. It can't be. Yet, time and time again we hear about it and we go back to, as the movie "Must Love Dogs" has, that "Little Shop Around The Corner," that is the Mara's family business, the incongeuency is laughable in this day and age.

Mara and Tisch have CEO and board membership responsibilities to the football business side as well as the operations side. The former, they are hitting it out of the park while, the latter, they continue to swing and miss. At the end of this season, they have to come together and look not only at this season past, but all three under Schoen and Daboll, to determine if those two are working through the mess the organization was in when they first took the job.

I will offer this much. Folks coming in and doing the demolition work rarely, if ever, get credit for a successful project; however, theirs is the hard, roll up your sleeves, dirty work. I believe that's what these two gentlemen have been doing and it underscores the level of rot, cronyism and utter futility this team has been operating under.

Sometimes, though, the talent a head coach and GM bring to an organization, as bastardized as the Giants are, ultimately takes its toll and they simply have nothing left to give. They complete demolition and yield the next phase to another regime. That is something that the Mara and Tisch families will have to measure up and decide in the end.

When an organization is allowed to rot into the condition the Giants have been in, and I believe it was well characterized when someone said it was so bad that they had to get rid of Tom Coughlin, that falls squarely on the back if ownership, plain and simple.

Another generation, another Mara has lost his away.

Peace!

Quote from: files58 on November 29, 2024, 01:07:01 PMThis. I don't understand how some folks on this board attribute Jones' contract to Schoen/Dabol. IT'S ALL ON MARA. Thus the two year out as the compromise, and here we are. I can't believe that Schoen, and maybe Dabol as well when they scouted Jones' draft year thought he was worthy of the 6th pick. Schoen had a home run draft this past year after restructuring the scouting staff. Like any restructuring in any business the results you want takes time.

The Giants just won a road playoff game after not having been in the playoffs for 10 years. So now you expected the GM to not sign the QB (despite having no other viable options) and instead tear it all down and start a total rebuild ? What GM in this league would do that.

Mara has proven he offers his opinions but allows his football people to make decisions. We saw this on Hard Knocks. So you are still saying that Mara made the decision on Jones and didn't allow Schoen to make their own decision?


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His tolerance alone for sloppy play is reason enough to fire him.

Look at it another way. I didn't think it was far-fetched suggesting that Mara/Tisch have three Strategic Imperatives for the 2024 season. I've talked these all year without much negative feedback so, figuring they were reasonable enough measures to gauge Giants progress, I went forward full steam ahead with them.

The season now past the 3/4 mark, it is reasonable enough to grade them as follows:

SI1: Fix the "damned" offensive line, once and for all.

Scoring: RED

Rationale: Depth at either tackle position insufficient to perform adequately throughout a full season. Increased risk carrying Andrew Thomas, going forward, due to injury sustained which compounds previous injuries to same foot. Right Tackle depth inadequate. Line showed potential at full strength but too many single point failures creating high risk once injuries take over.

SI2: Close the gap between the Giants and their "key" division rivals (i.e. Dallas, Philadelphia).

Scoring: RED

Rationale: Giants failed to win any divisional games in 2024. Still cannot match up with Dallas' offensive line. Philadelphia completely blew them away. Making matters worse, Washington surpassed them to reduce them to the worst teams in the division, by far.

SI3: Improve total of Lost Man Games Due to Injury in 2024, compared to 2023

Scoring: YELLOW (Trending Down)

Rationale: Interim grade remains yellow until final results for season are in. Rates of injury have steadily increased as the season has progressed.

Just in looking at the Strategic Imperatives for the season, the Giants have not hit on any of the three critical areas at least I believed necessary for them to achieve success in 2024.

I would conclude that any owner, using these reasonable measures, would have genuine cause for concern. Whether or not they measure up for termination for cause will depend on the owners' tolerance for losing against any seemingly progress to plan the GM and head coach are being held accountable to.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Peace!

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 29, 2024, 01:28:11 PMA few observations:

1) Not a single person can point to one thing Daboll does better than his coaching peers

2) It's the opposite of bias to take an evidence-based approach.  All available evidence disproves rather than supports the assertion that Mara forced Schoen and Daboll to sign DJ to a veteran contract

3) The Cowboys are more injured than the Giants and had a worse QB than the Giants.  Yet, the roster that Schoen spent 3 years building still lost the the Cowboys

Daboll once won COTY

So At least once in his short career he was considered better than ALL of his peers

Quote from: T200 on November 29, 2024, 01:38:51 PMThe very credit you and Todge give Jones for 2022 doesn't get provided to the coach who got Jones the accolades (and subsequent contract).

Barkley is a running back, not a coach.

There is no better coach than this gentleman from Pittsburgh.

Every year. No name players or studs he gets it done. All the time.

The defense is a disaster.....   ..the o line is still horrible......play calling totally baffling at times......offense as a whole is pathetic.
Put all their marbles on Jones .
Where are the positives after 3 years ,.....zero.

so you may get their guy ? Jones was their guy ?
What makes anyone think they will magically turn this team around with a new rookie QB ? They won't ...it will take mother two years to build a decent team  for any  new QB.
The overall performance of this team is rock bottom after 3 years with these guys..

Time for at least Daboll to go.....get a veteran QB to help stabilize the team ...get. Good line and better defense then get their guy )QB).
Not sure their guy is at  top of this draft...trade pick and get as many good players as possible with the trade.

 No more time for Daboll..new coach new staff especially d coordinator


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