Big Blue Huddle

I figured I would create a chart.  The traits chart was generated via AI.  Most of the stats are self-explanatory.  The PFF offense grade vs the PFF QB grade gives a sense of how much the offense helped the QB's performance.  The Big Time Throw Rate (I believe it should be better than 5%) and Turnover Worthy Plays (should be under 4%) are under pressure.  I also feel like Dart can be developed quicker and has a surer chance of developing than Cam Ward

(https://i.imgur.com/7wYtDEh.jpeg)

Nice comparison chart. Based on that, I'd take Sanders first.

Quote from: T200 on February 02, 2025, 05:54:18 PMNice comparison chart. Based on that, I'd take Sanders first.

All that grading though is Sanders vs Div2 aka the swac and big12 competition. Likewise with Ward, he played in the FCS at Incarnate Word for 2 years, before playing in the pac12, and then the acc. They both played powder puff teams, hell Sanders only threw for 300 yards like twice in the two years he was at Jackson St.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 02, 2025, 07:21:20 PMAll that grading though is Sanders vs Div2 aka the swac and big12 competition. Likewise with Ward, he played in the FCS at Incarnate Word for 2 years, before playing in the pac12, and then the acc. They both played powder puff teams, hell Sanders only threw for 300 yards like twice in the two years he was at Jackson St.

Do you think he'd struggle in the NFL or is his confidence something that will propel him to be a good/great QB?

Quote from: T200 on February 02, 2025, 07:51:33 PMDo you think he'd struggle in the NFL or is his confidence something that will propel him to be a good/great QB?

Sanders?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 02, 2025, 09:07:58 PMSanders?

Yes

Found this post from the NFL Draft guys on reddit and sums up Dart pretty well.

r/NFL_Draft

QB Stats and Metrics Post CFP Semis and Bowl Games. Put some Respect on Jaxson Dart
I've been pretty vocal about how I think Jaxson Dart is a severely helmet scouted prospect. Assuming Allar stays in school, Dart is the youngest QB in the class, while still having 3 years of starting experience in the SEC. He's improved every year and has been putting up class leading numbers this year despite playing without his number 1 receiver in Tre Harris for much of it. Dart has a strong arm, and he's been one of the best playmakers in all of CFB, even without his best receiver. Hes been a force multiplier: example being his #3 receiver on Ole Miss having 250 yards and 5 TDs vs Arkansas. Not only has he overcome the loss of Tre Harris, Ole Miss lost their starting running back and Dart has led the team in rushing yards several weeks. Dart is a very toolsy prospect with the same level of physical traits as JJ McCarthy last year, but hes built better. A big difference between those two is that Dart has had to be the guy and carry the Ole Miss offense every week and couldn't rely on a strong run game. Dart isn't just a deep throw go merchant; hes completing the highest percentage of passes in the intermediate 10-20 yard range and hes been the best at attacking the middle of the field. Even with by far the highest target distance in the class, Dart has completed a strong 69% of his passes. Hes got a really nice release as well with arm talent to match. In addition to playing without a starting WR or RB for much of the year, the Ole Miss O-line has been average at best. Despite this, Dart has the lowest QB allowed pressure rate in the class. Jaxson Dart is a round 1 talent, with a round 1 skillset, and round 1 production.

Jaxson Dart Key Metric Ranks in this Class:

Total Yards Per Game: 1st

Pass Yards Per Game: 2nd

Rush Yards Per Game: 2nd

Passer Rating: 1st

PFF Pass Grade: 1st

TD to INT: 2nd

Interception % of attempts: 1st (lowest)

Average Target Distance: 1st

Big Time throws Per Game (Difficult Tight Window/Deep Passes): 1st

Big time Throw vs Turnover Worthy Play Differential: 1st (highest)

Turnover Worthy Play Rate: 3rd

Time To Throw: 4th

Yards Per Attempt: 1st

QB Allowed Pressure Rate: 1st (lowest)

Pressure to Sack: 5th

Age: 1st (Youngest)

Intermediate Completion %: 1st

Middle Field Completion %: 1st

Link with the tables for the other qbs
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1hslvuo/qb_stats_and_metrics_post_cfp_semis_and_bowl/

His average distance of throw was 13 yards, his big time throw % is 3% higher than any other qb. His deep game is excellent, he threw 5-6% more often deep than ward or Sanders, and not to be out done his Intermediate Completion % was 3%  higher than Ward, and 6% on Intermediate throws in the SEC. Sanders gets hype because he's accurate, well Dart is just as accurate in the SEC. Ward gets hype for his off platform throws, and running ability but Dart is better off platform and running. Take the two things that people really like about Ward and Sanders, but Dart does that in the SEC.

Add on from the NFL Draft guys on reddit towards the end of the season:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1gx6zel/jaxson_dart_mr_helmet_scouted/

"Jaxson Dart has one the clearest Rd1 resumes at this point in the season, and it feels like the main weakness everyone has for him is the offense he operates, and he operates it very well may I add. Lane Kiffin has been in CFB ~20 years now and Dart is on track to have the best QB season ever in one of his offenses. The helmet scouting is next level, due to the failure of Matt Corral. Why aren't Allar and Beck criticized the same way due to where they play, since theres been quite a few QB busts from their schools. Is everyone watching Shedeur/Ewers/Beck? Their offenses are just as schemed up. Caleb Williams went #1 last year and his offense was extremely schemed up. But my main point is to look beyond the scheme a player operates in, especially if they're executing very well. People criticized Jayden Daniels for being a slot fade and go route merchant last year and hes having a good rookie season. What about Bo Nix, the Oregon scheme merchant? Hes probably having the best rookie QB season. What about the best QB in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes. But he went to Texas Tech, hes just a gimmick right? C'mon guys, lets do better!"

The Ole miss offense is very play action heavy and may have simplified reads, but its a demanding offense and asks for a lot from the QB position. Heres some facts that back that up:

-Dart has the lowest screen pass %, while Shedeur and Beck throw screens at twice the rate. Ewers is at just about double his rate too.

-Dart has the highest target distance in the class, yet he has an elite completion rate of 71%.(2nd in my top 5), while Shedeur is at #1 among my top 5 QBs, with an ADOT 4 yards less.

-Dart is having the best success passing into the intermediate area of the field. Almost 10% points better than the average in the class. Hes been really elite there.

-Dart does a fair amount of designed QB runs in the offense and he's currently #3 in the class in rushing yards, potentially #2 if Klubnik goes back to school.

"Jaxon Dart doesn't show up in Big Games": He averages 313 yards, 64% completion, 2 TDs, and .5 INT.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 02, 2025, 09:09:05 PMFound this post from the NFL Draft guys on reddit and sums up Dart pretty well.

r/NFL_Draft

QB Stats and Metrics Post CFP Semis and Bowl Games. Put some Respect on Jaxson Dart
I've been pretty vocal about how I think Jaxson Dart is a severely helmet scouted prospect. Assuming Allar stays in school, Dart is the youngest QB in the class, while still having 3 years of starting experience in the SEC. He's improved every year and has been putting up class leading numbers this year despite playing without his number 1 receiver in Tre Harris for much of it. Dart has a strong arm, and he's been one of the best playmakers in all of CFB, even without his best receiver. Hes been a force multiplier: example being his #3 receiver on Ole Miss having 250 yards and 5 TDs vs Arkansas. Not only has he overcome the loss of Tre Harris, Ole Miss lost their starting running back and Dart has led the team in rushing yards several weeks. Dart is a very toolsy prospect with the same level of physical traits as JJ McCarthy last year, but hes built better. A big difference between those two is that Dart has had to be the guy and carry the Ole Miss offense every week and couldn't rely on a strong run game. Dart isn't just a deep throw go merchant; hes completing the highest percentage of passes in the intermediate 10-20 yard range and hes been the best at attacking the middle of the field. Even with by far the highest target distance in the class, Dart has completed a strong 69% of his passes. Hes got a really nice release as well with arm talent to match. In addition to playing without a starting WR or RB for much of the year, the Ole Miss O-line has been average at best. Despite this, Dart has the lowest QB allowed pressure rate in the class. Jaxson Dart is a round 1 talent, with a round 1 skillset, and round 1 production.

Jaxson Dart Key Metric Ranks in this Class:

Total Yards Per Game: 1st

Pass Yards Per Game: 2nd

Rush Yards Per Game: 2nd

Passer Rating: 1st

PFF Pass Grade: 1st

TD to INT: 2nd

Interception % of attempts: 1st (lowest)

Average Target Distance: 1st

Big Time throws Per Game (Difficult Tight Window/Deep Passes): 1st

Big time Throw vs Turnover Worthy Play Differential: 1st (highest)

Turnover Worthy Play Rate: 3rd

Time To Throw: 4th

Yards Per Attempt: 1st

QB Allowed Pressure Rate: 1st (lowest)

Pressure to Sack: 5th

Age: 1st (Youngest)

Intermediate Completion %: 1st

Middle Field Completion %: 1st

Link with the tables for the other qbs
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1hslvuo/qb_stats_and_metrics_post_cfp_semis_and_bowl/

His average distance of throw was 13 yards, his big time throw % is 3% higher than any other qb. His deep game is excellent, he threw 5-6% more often deep than ward or Sanders, and not to be out done his Intermediate Completion % was 3%  higher than Ward, and 6% on Intermediate throws in the SEC. Sanders gets hype because he's accurate, well Dart is just as accurate in the SEC. Ward gets hype for his off platform throws, and running ability but Dart is better off platform and running. Take the two things that people really like about Ward and Sanders, but Dart does that in the SEC.

Add on from the NFL Draft guys on reddit towards the end of the season:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1gx6zel/jaxson_dart_mr_helmet_scouted/

"Jaxson Dart has one the clearest Rd1 resumes at this point in the season, and it feels like the main weakness everyone has for him is the offense he operates, and he operates it very well may I add. Lane Kiffin has been in CFB ~20 years now and Dart is on track to have the best QB season ever in one of his offenses. The helmet scouting is next level, due to the failure of Matt Corral. Why aren't Allar and Beck criticized the same way due to where they play, since theres been quite a few QB busts from their schools. Is everyone watching Shedeur/Ewers/Beck? Their offenses are just as schemed up. Caleb Williams went #1 last year and his offense was extremely schemed up. But my main point is to look beyond the scheme a player operates in, especially if they're executing very well. People criticized Jayden Daniels for being a slot fade and go route merchant last year and hes having a good rookie season. What about Bo Nix, the Oregon scheme merchant? Hes probably having the best rookie QB season. What about the best QB in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes. But he went to Texas Tech, hes just a gimmick right? C'mon guys, lets do better!"

The Ole miss offense is very play action heavy and may have simplified reads, but its a demanding offense and asks for a lot from the QB position. Heres some facts that back that up:

-Dart has the lowest screen pass %, while Shedeur and Beck throw screens at twice the rate. Ewers is at just about double his rate too.

-Dart has the highest target distance in the class, yet he has an elite completion rate of 71%.(2nd in my top 5), while Shedeur is at #1 among my top 5 QBs, with an ADOT 4 yards less.

-Dart is having the best success passing into the intermediate area of the field. Almost 10% points better than the average in the class. Hes been really elite there.

-Dart does a fair amount of designed QB runs in the offense and he's currently #3 in the class in rushing yards, potentially #2 if Klubnik goes back to school.

"Jaxon Dart doesn't show up in Big Games": He averages 313 yards, 64% completion, 2 TDs, and .5 INT.

J, you've put up some great stuff promoting Dart. Yet you've also said the qbs are not top 3 worthy. It seems like a hard target to hit if Dart goes 10 to 15.   What do you think the Giants should do if they want him?   I think the Bears paid dearly when they moved up to 11 for Fields, that's steep to give up a future first round pick I can see us moving into the 20s and hoping he's still there.  Thoughts?

Quote from: gregf on February 02, 2025, 09:43:27 PMJ, you've put up some great stuff promoting Dart. Yet you've also said the qbs are not top 3 worthy. It seems like a hard target to hit if Dart goes 10 to 15.   What do you think the Giants should do if they want him?   I think the Bears paid dearly when they moved up to 11 for Fields, that's steep to give up a future first round pick I can see us moving into the 20s and hoping he's still there.  Thoughts?

Ideal scenario currently.
Sanders or Ward make it to 3 and the Raiders with a new Hc want to get their guy. We give them pick 3 and 107 so they can take Sanders and in return we get 6, 37, 68. Our two picks are a value of 2280 and they'd be giving up 2380 on the trade chart. Which seems reasonable as most have to pay a kings ransom. We have an extra 4th from Mckinney leaving, so if that happens then I would be on board taking Dart at 6 in that case knowing we have multiple picks at the top of the 2nd and 3rd to fill out the roster. Ontop of that the extra 2nd and 3rd negate some of the risk in taking Dart that some might have because you have the extra high picks.

I much prefer that, than us taking someone at 3, and then having to give up assets to hop back into the 1st rd. Because I think when the dust settles, Dart may be QB2 or at the very least a top 10-12 pick. So then us getting him with a trade back and multiple day 2 picks makes me over the moon, because the Dline, Oline, and CB depth is nice in this draft with some really good players being available at the top of the 2nd and 3rd. We could really have the makings of a team at that point.

Chip Kelly just took the OC gig in Las Vegas.

GPA in a real major does not correlate perfectly with an ability to process NFL defenses at lightning speed, however if I have to choose whether I want to take a chance on a high vs low GPA candidate I side with the high.  Dart checks that box in my mind.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 02, 2025, 07:21:20 PMAll that grading though is Sanders vs Div2 aka the swac and big12 competition. Likewise with Ward, he played in the FCS at Incarnate Word for 2 years, before playing in the pac12, and then the acc. They both played powder puff teams, hell Sanders only threw for 300 yards like twice in the two years he was at Jackson St.

J: This is important. He never played consistently good competition. Worse, he didn't dominate against the 2nd-level teams of his conference. I'd rather take a guaranteed elite player at Pick Three. At QB, assuming they aren't happy with whatever free-agent they sign, maybe they'll like McCord and take him. He qualifies as a local kid, and they like local kids. Bob

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 02, 2025, 10:01:10 PMIdeal scenario currently.
Sanders or Ward make it to 3 and the Raiders with a new Hc want to get their guy. We give them pick 3 and 107 so they can take Sanders and in return we get 6, 37, 68. Our two picks are a value of 2280 and they'd be giving up 2380 on the trade chart. Which seems reasonable as most have to pay a kings ransom. We have an extra 4th from Mckinney leaving, so if that happens then I would be on board taking Dart at 6 in that case knowing we have multiple picks at the top of the 2nd and 3rd to fill out the roster. Ontop of that the extra 2nd and 3rd negate some of the risk in taking Dart that some might have because you have the extra high picks.


I much prefer that, than us taking someone at 3, and then having to give up assets to hop back into the 1st rd. Because I think when the dust settles, Dart may be QB2 or at the very least a top 10-12 pick. So then us getting him with a trade back and multiple day 2 picks makes me over the moon, because the Dline, Oline, and CB depth is nice in this draft with some really good players being available at the top of the 2nd and 3rd. We could really have the makings of a team at that point.

J

If the Raiders really do want their guy  you would not want #1 or#2  in 2026  from them in addition to what you propose?  You did say that teams would have to pay a kings ransom??


Dumpster Dan

Maybe I read it wrong--its the Raiders who have #107   so are you saying the Giants would get 37, 68 & 107??


Dumpster Dan

Here are the charts from the link @Jclayton92 provided

(https://preview.redd.it/qb-stats-and-metrics-post-cfp-semis-and-bowl-games-put-some-v0-u7x6s6vwurae1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=12315198813c0ed1a2ce729882f543f544b3d487)

(https://preview.redd.it/qb-stats-and-metrics-post-cfp-semis-and-bowl-games-put-some-v0-t6hirn73vrae1.png?width=906&format=png&auto=webp&s=d89bac0f8b1dd13c1f08d7e75c52b62ab64ed8c2)

(https://preview.redd.it/qb-stats-and-metrics-post-cfp-semis-and-bowl-games-put-some-v0-f5gwcv77vrae1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=51caa34971a0b53b1d56e273e470e63c4701f63b)

Here in the NFL.com scouting reports from Lance Zerlien

Cam Ward

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/cam-ward/32005741-5206-5305-364b-76c1f988f45e

Shededur Sanders

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/shedeur-sanders/32005341-4e47-8221-56fd-8e3864421298

Jaxson Dart

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jaxson-dart/32004441-5273-5504-d6f2-f2d3f25131e8

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 02, 2025, 10:01:10 PMIdeal scenario currently.
Sanders or Ward make it to 3 and the Raiders with a new Hc want to get their guy. We give them pick 3 and 107 so they can take Sanders and in return we get 6, 37, 68. Our two picks are a value of 2280 and they'd be giving up 2380 on the trade chart. Which seems reasonable as most have to pay a kings ransom. We have an extra 4th from Mckinney leaving, so if that happens then I would be on board taking Dart at 6 in that case knowing we have multiple picks at the top of the 2nd and 3rd to fill out the roster. Ontop of that the extra 2nd and 3rd negate some of the risk in taking Dart that some might have because you have the extra high picks.


I much prefer that, than us taking someone at 3, and then having to give up assets to hop back into the 1st rd. Because I think when the dust settles, Dart may be QB2 or at the very least a top 10-12 pick. So then us getting him with a trade back and multiple day 2 picks makes me over the moon, because the Dline, Oline, and CB depth is nice in this draft with some really good players being available at the top of the 2nd and 3rd. We could really have the makings of a team at that point.

Jess


I really dont think you are getting enough in return  for $3


Dumpster Dan

Jess's proposition seems reasonable to me given the sudden elevating interest in Jaxson Dart. In any case, taking him anywhere in Round 1 would add a potential 5th year to his contract if it's as important as it seems to have become.

Cheers!

Agree Painter that his proposition is reasonable---on the other hand my thinking is that when a team is trading into the top 3 and their goal is a QB, they always overpay, hence my stance that he is not getting enough

Dumpster Dan

ESPN's Jordan Reid has a breakout on QBs:



1. Cam Ward, Miami
Height: 6-foot-2 | Weight: 223 pounds
Class: Senior | Projected range: Round 1

Where he excels: Recent years have seen transfer QBs make significant leaps in their development with new schools and fly up draft boards. Recent examples are Joe Burrow and Jayden Daniels, who turned Heisman Trophy-winning seasons at LSU into top-two selections. Ward, who has moved from Incarnate Word to Washington State to Miami over five seasons, is that candidate in the 2025 class.

Ward threw for 4,313 yards, an FBS-high 39 touchdown passes and seven interceptions this season. He is an electrifying playmaker who led Miami to a 10-3 record, its best mark since 2017. He can throw from multiple arm slots and generate velocity with ease no matter the positioning of his body, like a shortstop maneuvering the infield. His 88.7 Total QBR ranked second in the country, and his 29 completions of 20-plus air yards tied for fifth.

What is most impressive is Ward's poise and calm demeanor. He was his best in the biggest moments of the season, especially in fourth quarters. His 93.3 QBR in the fourth quarter ranked third in the country, and he orchestrated comeback wins against Virginia Tech and Cal, which included 238 fourth-quarter passing yards against the Golden Bears.

Where he needs work: What hurt Ward during his two seasons at Washington State in 2022-23 were moments when he tried to do too much.

"He has times where he has to scratch his itch for reckless plays, and it leaves you asking, 'What the heck was he thinking there?'" an AFC area scout said. "I like him and don't know if that can be coached out of him."

Ward is a work in progress when it comes to controlling careless plays and head-scratching decisions outside of structure that lead to turnovers, with his pick-six against Cal being a prime example. He also had spurts of inaccuracy against Georgia Tech, helping contribute to Miami's first loss of the season.

Scouts want to see Ward get the ball out quicker, too. His 2.91-second average time before pass ranked 100th in the FBS. He has a habit of looking off open options in the short to intermediate areas of progressions to search for explosive plays.


2. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado
Height: 6-foot-2 | Weight: 215 pounds
Class: Senior | Projected range: Round 1

Where he excels: When protected in the pocket, Sanders' rhythm, calm demeanor and accuracy are among the best in the country. He shows great ball location in the short and underneath areas.

Sanders had 4,134 passing yards, 37 touchdowns and 10 interceptions this season. Despite facing pressure on 40.3% of his dropbacks (15th highest in the FBS), he ranked first in completion percentage (74%). His poise and ball placement improved throughout the season. Sanders' 6.5% off-target rate was the third-lowest mark in the FBS, as he allows his receivers to easily get yards after the catch.

"He's been the best of the bunch to me, and I've been impressed by his growth this year," an assistant GM from an NFC team said. "The on-field demeanor has been contagious so far, and the results have shown on that team this year."

Sanders' 11 go-ahead touchdown passes were tied for the second most in the country. As the moments heighten, his heartbeat remains the same. And it's that unwavering confidence that most excites scouts.

Where he needs work: The consensus from evaluators is Sanders must get the ball out quicker. He averaged 2.96 seconds before throwing this season, which tied for 110th in the FBS. And while plenty of blame can be put on his inconsistent protection, he needs to trust his expiring internal clock and distribute. He tends to drift backward or search for escape lanes out the side of the pocket.

Sanders also needs to cut down on taking avoidable sacks and compounding mistakes; his 7.5% sack-per-dropback rate tied for 23rd highest in the country, and the 42 sacks he took were the most in the FBS. It was the second straight season Sanders led the FBS in that category, as he took 52 in 2023. Under offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur, Colorado's passing attack has evolved into more of an underneath scheme, as Sanders averaged only 7.4 air yards per attempt (103rd in the FBS).


Sanders attended the East-West Shrine Game but did not participate in practices. Multiple sources mentioned how well he interviewed there. They said he came across as genuine and open, and they all praised his understanding of the game.


3. Jaxson Dart, Ole Miss
Height: 6-foot-2 | Weight: 225 pounds
Class: Senior | Projected range: Mid-to-late Day 2

Where he excels: Dart began his college career at USC in 2021 before transferring to Ole Miss, where he started the past three seasons in Lane Kiffin's up-tempo offense. He threw for 4,279 yards, 29 touchdowns and six interceptions this season, and his completion percentage was 69.3%, the fourth straight season he has improved.

Dart is a fluid thrower with the arm strength to attack all parts of the field and stretch the ball vertically, as his 11.1 air yards per attempt ranked fifth in the FBS. He also can get the ball out quickly with perimeter passes and couples that touch with his arm strength; his 80.9% catchable ball rate ranked 10th.


Where he needs work: Scouts have concerns about how much Kiffin's offense prepares quarterbacks for the NFL. Kiffin knows how to scheme receivers open, with 34.2% of Dart's passes this season being labeled as wide-open attempts (11th in the FBS).

"Passers in that offense are always hard to project because everything's so open," an area scout for an NFC team said. "I think he has a nice arm, but there's hardly any progressions, and Lane's scheming guys open so well."

How quickly can he adapt to performing multistep progressions? That's the question scouts wanted to see Dart answer at the Senior Bowl. He became more comfortable with the verbiage in the huddle and footwork on dropbacks after taking snaps under center. Dart's continued development will hinge on those factors, as he wasn't asked to huddle, relay plays or frequently go through multiple options on passing concepts at Ole Miss.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2025/insider/story/_/id/41736211/ranking-top-2025-nfl-draft-quarterbacks-hot-board-team-fits

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 03, 2025, 08:00:10 AMHere are the charts from the link @Jclayton92 provided

(https://preview.redd.it/qb-stats-and-metrics-post-cfp-semis-and-bowl-games-put-some-v0-u7x6s6vwurae1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=12315198813c0ed1a2ce729882f543f544b3d487)

(https://preview.redd.it/qb-stats-and-metrics-post-cfp-semis-and-bowl-games-put-some-v0-t6hirn73vrae1.png?width=906&format=png&auto=webp&s=d89bac0f8b1dd13c1f08d7e75c52b62ab64ed8c2)

(https://preview.redd.it/qb-stats-and-metrics-post-cfp-semis-and-bowl-games-put-some-v0-f5gwcv77vrae1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=51caa34971a0b53b1d56e273e470e63c4701f63b)

Thanks I couldn't move them over lol or didn't know how to. I can't even get the prospects names before their scouting report in the pinned message to be in bold.

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on February 03, 2025, 07:36:00 AMMaybe I read it wrong--its the Raiders who have #107   so are you saying the Giants would get 37, 68 & 107??


Dumpster Dan

I meant 104, or whichever is our first pick in the 4th. We give up our 1st and 4th for their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on February 03, 2025, 07:25:50 AMJ

If the Raiders really do want their guy  you would not want #1 or#2  in 2026  from them in addition to what you propose?  You did say that teams would have to pay a kings ransom??


Dumpster Dan

I don't think they'd give up assets in 2026 and Daboll and schoen are in win now mode so getting capital in this draft that helps them this year's seems more realistic than them stocking the cupboard for someone else.

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on February 03, 2025, 08:20:27 AMJess


I really dont think you are getting enough in return  for $3


Dumpster Dan

You have to remember the Raiders would be only moving 3 spots. I can't remember what the patriots were asking for last year, but you want it reasonable enough so they bite, and you get the extra capital.

One great way to eval QBs is when they have a horrible game such 52% completion, 3 INTs, etc., what is their next performance like?  Do their mechanics remain sound?  Do they become gun shy instead of remaining confident?  How do their teammates react?

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1887180519118373300

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1887186507414331784

when I finish reading an article like this one, I am baffled as to why Dart isn't considered a top QB prospect, especially this year


https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/ole-miss-football/could-jaxson-dart-really-become-lane-kiffins-first-1st-round-quarterback/

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 05, 2025, 02:49:07 PMwhen I finish reading an article like this one, I am baffled as to why Dart isn't considered a top QB prospect, especially this year


https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/ole-miss-football/could-jaxson-dart-really-become-lane-kiffins-first-1st-round-quarterback/

After the combine and pro day he'll shoot up to that 7-12 range in the 1st and everyone will act like they've been in on him even if they weren't.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 05, 2025, 02:49:07 PMwhen I finish reading an article like this one, I am baffled as to why Dart isn't considered a top QB prospect, especially this year


https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/ole-miss-football/could-jaxson-dart-really-become-lane-kiffins-first-1st-round-quarterback/

Let him stay under everyone's radar. Everyone seems to forget that he`s only 21 years old.

Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
Cut up the best Cam Ward throws/plays vs. VT
Some projectable traits on display:
1. Seamless ability to change the TEMPO of his throws (not everything is the same speed & trajectory)
2. Improvision. Multiple times you'll see the play side route combo foiled & Ward finding a solution.
3. Creativity with his EYES when forced to break the pocket. So many EXs of him finding solutions on the move.
4. The release. Man, this should've been 1, but it's apparent on every game I've watched. Effortless release. Quick & efficient.
5. ++Ball placement on throws down the field.
6. (I like this one a lot) Velocity doesn't seem to be impacted when off platform/not throwing from a balanced base.

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1887503262397702165

Dan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
The more Cam Ward tape I find myself watching, the more I am becoming a Cam Ward guy.
It's not all perfect, but the highs are "NFL" highs. And that's what I have always looked for seeing as QB evaluations are a PROJECTION as to how they'll make the jump to the speed of the NFL game.
In other words, I'm setting myself up for disappointment as the Giants blew the 1st pick overall & two teams ahead of them have no QB.
11:57 AM · Feb 6, 2025
·
1,397
 Views

https://x.com/AustinAbbottFF/status/1885526848299274574

https://x.com/DraftAnalyst365/status/1886198492747481118

From what I am hearing, the Giants contingent spent a nice amount of time with Dart at the senior bowl. They waited on him as he was the last player to leave the field, he stayed and signed every autograph for kids at the event.

That scouts and Gms fully expect him now to go at the latest 18 to Seattle but expect one of the Raiders(6), Jets(7), or Saints(9)

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 06, 2025, 11:48:07 AMDan Schneier
@DanSchneierNFL
Cut up the best Cam Ward throws/plays vs. VT
Some projectable traits on display:
1. Seamless ability to change the TEMPO of his throws (not everything is the same speed & trajectory)
2. Improvision. Multiple times you'll see the play side route combo foiled & Ward finding a solution.
3. Creativity with his EYES when forced to break the pocket. So many EXs of him finding solutions on the move.
4. The release. Man, this should've been 1, but it's apparent on every game I've watched. Effortless release. Quick & efficient.
5. ++Ball placement on throws down the field.
6. (I like this one a lot) Velocity doesn't seem to be impacted when off platform/not throwing from a balanced base.

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1887503262397702165

From my perspective at this time, the Giants will likely be looking hard at Cam Ward and Jaxton Dart from where they are drafting at the 3 slot. Both would be good fits and imo both will have solid NFL careers. I was watching a game review last night of the Miami-Cuse game, and it's funny how reviewing the film gives you a different interpretation from watching the game. Both QBs were solid. In fact, Miami should have won that game if not for some bad Official's calls on their final drives where they had to settle for a FG and never got the ball back. Bad decision by the HC when you have Cam Ward with the ball. Ward will need to be corrected for his sloppy feet in his drop, but his anticipation and how he reads the field and his progressions both pre and post snap are a beautiful thing. Once he becomes more consistent in setting his base, he will only get better. What was eye opening were the plays where the pass protection broke down, and he immediately jumped to his second read because he instinctively knew the timing was going to be off. It's so easy to see him working through his progressions as you watch his feet hitch quickly and without hesitation. In retrospect, the occasional open receiver was the 4th read and time ran out to get the pass off. Another thing that impressed me was how he read the BOX on a pass play and saw it was 5 on 5, so he changed it from PRO to RPO and it went for a nice gain. Stuff that's light years ahead of QBs at his level. My one hesitation was the competition he faced, but to me he clearly translates to the next level. I also see him composed enough to play in NY.   

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 03, 2025, 12:13:18 PMYou have to remember the Raiders would be only moving 3 spots. I can't remember what the patriots were asking for last year, but you want it reasonable enough so they bite, and you get the extra capital.

Well we moved up only 3 spots to get Eli from the Chargers  :greetings:

NFL Rookie Watch
@NFLRookieWatxh
Jaxson Dart recently said he "does not want to sit" as a rookie QB in the NFL.

Dart reportedly wants to be a "QB1" from the start of the season.

Eli Manning (HOF Giants QB) reportedly "loves" Dart as a prospect and would like to see the Giants land him.

Andrew Berry (Browns GM) is reportedly also a "huge fan" of Dart's game and could target him early.

The Giants and Browns may be competing for Ole Miss's next ELITE QB talent 👀

https://x.com/NFLRookieWatxh/status/1887556914881724868

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 06, 2025, 12:34:11 PMFrom what I am hearing, the Giants contingent spent a nice amount of time with Dart at the senior bowl. They waited on him as he was the last player to leave the field, he stayed and signed every autograph for kids at the event.

That scouts and Gms fully expect him now to go at the latest 18 to Seattle but expect one of the Raiders(6), Jets(7), or Saints(9)

The Giants spent a boat load of time with JJ McCarthy last year. Means nothing.

Quote from: katkavage on February 06, 2025, 05:48:46 PMThe Giants spent a boat load of time with JJ McCarthy last year. Means nothing.

I'm aware, was just letting everyone know just like we did when they met with Sanders a bunch earlier.

Quote from: katkavage on February 06, 2025, 05:48:46 PMThe Giants spent a boat load of time with JJ McCarthy last year. Means nothing.

It's the lying season where teams try to hide their true intentions.  I take every report with a grain of salt 

https://x.com/DNVR_Buffs/status/1887603005165609356

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 06, 2025, 01:46:39 PMFrom my perspective at this time, the Giants will likely be looking hard at Cam Ward and Jaxton Dart from where they are drafting at the 3 slot. Both would be good fits and imo both will have solid NFL careers. I was watching a game review last night of the Miami-Cuse game, and it's funny how reviewing the film gives you a different interpretation from watching the game. Both QBs were solid. In fact, Miami should have won that game if not for some bad Official's calls on their final drives where they had to settle for a FG and never got the ball back. Bad decision by the HC when you have Cam Ward with the ball. Ward will need to be corrected for his sloppy feet in his drop, but his anticipation and how he reads the field and his progressions both pre and post snap are a beautiful thing. Once he becomes more consistent in setting his base, he will only get better. What was eye opening were the plays where the pass protection broke down, and he immediately jumped to his second read because he instinctively knew the timing was going to be off. It's so easy to see him working through his progressions as you watch his feet hitch quickly and without hesitation. In retrospect, the occasional open receiver was the 4th read and time ran out to get the pass off. Another thing that impressed me was how he read the BOX on a pass play and saw it was 5 on 5, so he changed it from PRO to RPO and it went for a nice gain. Stuff that's light years ahead of QBs at his level. My one hesitation was the competition he faced, but to me he clearly translates to the next level. I also see him composed enough to play in NY.   

Watching Wards tape a few things are perplexing to me. A) how they were so behind against bad teams late like VA tech and California. B) How is it that Ward couldn't get Elijah Arroyo more involved, he averaged like 17 yards a catch. A few other things are just off for some reason, I don't know if it's the play calling or what.

Was watching more sheddur tape and while his accuracy is elite, his pocket awareness and mobility navigating the pocket is nonexistent. He has zero spatial awareness or feel for the rush, and holds the ball entirely too long.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 07, 2025, 02:28:46 PMWas watching more sheddur tape and while his accuracy is elite, his pocket awareness and mobility navigating the pocket is nonexistent. He has zero spatial awareness or feel for the rush, and holds the ball entirely too long.

Both Sanders and Ward (more so Sanders) have a bad habit of moving backward rather than up or to the side

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 07, 2025, 02:28:46 PMWas watching more sheddur tape and while his accuracy is elite, his pocket awareness and mobility navigating the pocket is nonexistent. He has zero spatial awareness or feel for the rush, and holds the ball entirely too long.

He's trying to find an open receiver, but I get the point and agree, at the next level he has to hit his check-down or get rid of the ball. But it depends on so many factors.

Time To Throw All
McCord- 2.40
Beck- 2.53
Howard- 2.65
Nussmeier- 2.59
Gabriel- 2.74
Dart- 2.80
Milroe- 2.85
Allar- 2.91
Ward- 2.9
Sanders- 2.97

NFL TTT
Tua- 2.31
Cousins- 2.56
Stafford- 2.62
DJ- 2.74
Mayfield- 2.78
Mahomes- 2.79
Allen- 2.86
Daniels- 2.95
Nix- 2.98
Darnold- 3.08
Jackson- 3.23

Obviously, mobile QBs will hold the ball longer and a low TTT could indicate shorter connections on the first two reads or check-down. Daniels and Nix's NFL Time to Sack is over 4 seconds. See what you can make of this:

Time to Sack-
Stafford- 3.11
McCord- 3.38
Tua- 3.48
DJ- 3.58
Darnold- 3.60
Ward- 3.61
Dart- 2.80
Jackson- 3.82
Daniels- 4.03
Sanders- 4.11

So, yeah... Sanders hold on too long.

 

Kyle McCord in the second or a trade back into the late first round can't be discounted.

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1887589648924643445?s=46&t=4x-JXwsXYehIZ1h3v6r-zQ

Quote from: madbadger on February 07, 2025, 05:23:38 PMKyle McCord in the second or a trade back into the late first round can't be discounted.

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1887589648924643445?s=46&t=4x-JXwsXYehIZ1h3v6r-zQ

That should set them up for a top 3 pick in 2026 and a chance at another QB.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 07, 2025, 12:16:53 PMWatching Wards tape a few things are perplexing to me. A) how they were so behind against bad teams late like VA tech and California. B) How is it that Ward couldn't get Elijah Arroyo more involved, he averaged like 17 yards a catch. A few other things are just off for some reason, I don't know if it's the play calling or what.

How were they behind bad teams late? Simple, their defense sucked all season long.

Quote from: madbadger on February 07, 2025, 05:23:38 PMKyle McCord in the second or a trade back into the late first round can't be discounted.

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1887589648924643445?s=46&t=4x-JXwsXYehIZ1h3v6r-zQ

He looks pretty good. The one concern I have is he appears to lock on recievers.

https://x.com/CFBFilmRoom/status/1887894425822531818

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 08, 2025, 07:37:05 AMhttps://x.com/CFBFilmRoom/status/1887894425822531818

Yes, but they all appear to lock on to their Recievers Receivers.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 08, 2025, 07:52:09 AMYes, but they all appear to lock on to their Recievers Receivers.

I don't think they all lock on receivers.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 08, 2025, 07:52:09 AMYes, but they all appear to lock on to their Recievers Receivers.

 :funnypost:

Quote from: madbadger on February 07, 2025, 11:30:21 PMHow were they behind bad teams late? Simple, their defense sucked all season long.

Quote from: madbadger on February 07, 2025, 11:30:21 PMHow were they behind bad teams late? Simple, their defense sucked all season long.

They were 12th in the country vs the pass, 13th in the country vs the run, and 9th in sacks.

This is an excellent article about Dart's rise.

https://t.co/xEFnj4Hd5i


https://x.com/ff_travism/status/1888323138645012880?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 08, 2025, 06:26:36 PMThey were 12th in the country vs the pass, 13th in the country vs the run, and 9th in sacks.

And 70th in points allowed against the 59th hardest schedule. Every other defensive stat is meaningless.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 08, 2025, 06:21:44 PM:funnypost:

What does this mean?

Ole Miss QB Jaxson Dart's 2025 NFL Draft hype just broke through a new barrier based on latest expert mock drafts

Momentum is clearly picking back up for Jaxson Dart, especially since his Senior Bowl week where he was clearly the best quarterback of the bunch. Mock drafts everywhere are placing him safely inside day two, if not as early as round one, and it's not baseless buzz.

A to Z Sports has confirmed with multiple scouts from a number of NFL teams that Jaxson Dart ranks as high as QB2 on at least a handful of boards around the league. After talking with many others at the Senior Bowl and around the NFL Draft community it's still unclear where Dart will be selected, but even national experts like Dan Orlovsky of ESPN are catching up given his recent post: "Jaxson Dart is going in round 1."


What changed to make this significant leap in perceived draft projection for Jaxson Dart?

Was it his phenomenal 400+ yard Gator Bowl performance against a Top 15 defenese? Was he extremely impressive in interviews and on the field at the Senior Bowl? Probably a little bit of both. What's likely happened that most significantly boosted Dart's stock is that teams have simply finally pulled together a look at his career in its amazing entirety.

Dart started more than 40 games throughout his career at both USC and Ole Miss, playing each and every year he was in college. He posted back to back seasons with a Pro Football Focus grade above 90 (most first round QBs can't even boast this). Across Dart's final two seasons he finished ranked top ten among all FBS quarterbacks in virtually every meaningful efficiency measure.

On top of all that, Dart finished his final 2024 campaign ranked first in yards per play, first in total yards per game, first in adjusted yards per pass attempt, second in passer rating, fourth in QBR, and fourth in EPA per play among all FBS quarterbacks. Just ridiculously impressive.




https://atozsports.com/college-football/ole-miss-qb-jaxson-darts-2025-nfl-draft-hype-broke-through-new-barrier-latest-expert-mock-drafts-lane-kiffin-cam-ward-shedeur-sanders-jalen-milroe/

Quote from: Trench on February 08, 2025, 10:19:25 PMWhat does this mean?

It means you got mocked by another adult for a typo/misspelling, and someone else thought that was funny.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 08, 2025, 11:30:01 PMIt means you got mocked by another adult for a typo/misspelling, and someone else thought that was funny.

Thanks for clarifying. Hope everyone has a nice Super Bowl with friends and family

I used the link I provided to watch all of Dart play LSU (his worst game of the season) and Georgia.   LSU was under Giants like conditions.   His best receiver got hurt.   Dart was sacked 6 times and the run game was inconsistent at best.   It wasn't pretty. 

Georgia, he got better protection but had no help with the run and he was missing his best receiver.  He also injured his ankle early and played with a heavy wrap.

I could see how people who watch those games could see a QB who isn't a top QB.   On the other hand, I saw him make plays under tough conditions along with the bad.   He's only 21 so he certainly has room for growth and improvements.

I am currently watching the Kentucky game, as I continue to try and learn more about the polarizing prospect (the way he is being discussed reminds me of JJ last year).   At this point, I will say my enthusiasm may have waned a bit but I haven't reached a verdict.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 08, 2025, 11:30:01 PMIt means you got mocked corrected by another adult for a typo/misspelling, and someone else thought that was funny.

Ed

I don't need you or anyone else to "correct" me. This isn't an English class. Have you ever thought that perhaps maybe there is something going on which may cause someone to spell things incorrectly at times?

This was simply uncalled for

Quote from: Trench on February 09, 2025, 08:40:18 AMEd

I don't need you or anyone else to "correct" me. This isn't an English class. Have you ever thought that perhaps maybe there is something going on which may cause someone to spell things incorrectly at times?

This was simply uncalled for

I often correct spelling. Mostly on new threads that go out to Twitter/X and Facebook. Not with a cross out but actually correcting the word. I agree, that the cross out was making a point and it caught me at the wrong moment. My apologies.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 09, 2025, 08:49:53 AMI often correct spelling. Mostly on new threads that go out to Twitter/X and Facebook. Not with a cross out but actually correcting the word. I agree, that the cross out was making a point and it caught me at the wrong moment. My apologies.

Thank you very much Ed

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2025, 08:05:15 AMI used the link I provided to watch all of Dart play LSU (his worst game of the season) and Georgia.   LSU was under Giants like conditions.   His best receiver got hurt.   Dart was sacked 6 times and the run game was inconsistent at best.   It wasn't pretty. 

Georgia, he got better protection but had no help with the run and he was missing his best receiver.  He also injured his ankle early and played with a heavy wrap.

I could see how people who watch those games could see a QB who isn't a top QB.   On the other hand, I saw him make plays under tough conditions along with the bad.   He's only 21 so he certainly has room for growth and improvements.

I am currently watching the Kentucky game, as I continue to try and learn more about the polarizing prospect (the way he is being discussed reminds me of JJ last year).   At this point, I will say my enthusiasm may have waned a bit but I haven't reached a verdict.

Top Wr, rb, and multiple Olinemen. Dart led that whole LSU game, the defense let them down at the end. Georgia, the defense showed up, and they slept walked through Kentucky.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 09, 2025, 09:59:13 AMTop Wr, rb, and multiple Olinemen. Dart led that whole LSU game, the defense let them down at the end. Georgia, the defense showed up, and they slept walked through Kentucky.

Thanks, I am looking at games against the better opponents and also what is available at the site.

While the link I provided doesn't seem to have all games, is there a game you would recommend I watch?

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2025, 10:25:21 AMThanks, I am looking at games against the better opponents and also what is available at the site.

While the link I provided doesn't seem to have all games, is there a game you would recommend I watch?

If you are wanting to see the best of the 2023 LSU game, 2023 Penn st bowl game, and 2024 Duke bowl game.

Worst of probably the Kentucky game this year and Florida.

Quote from: Trench on February 08, 2025, 10:19:25 PMWhat does this mean?

I wanted to see how you would react if the shoe was on the other foot  ;)

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=72211.msg997640#msg997640

It's no fun when people start piling on, is it?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 09, 2025, 11:13:41 AMIf you are wanting to see the best of the 2023 LSU game, 2023 Penn st bowl game, and 2024 Duke bowl game.

Worst of probably the Kentucky game this year and Florida.

For those who want to check out these (and other games) here is the link


https://nfl-video.com/cfb/sec_football/ole_miss_rebels_football/68

I like Ward but I'm preparing myself for Sanders.

This whole thing is being orchestrated and we've been watching it unfold since Brandon Brown was in Boulder. Then the cleats, the social media stuff & the publicity stunt in NYC. Deion's got some Parcells in him, too. He's already made the power move from Jackson St. to Colorado. He hasn't been shy about wanting to coach his son in the pros.

Get yourself ready: Deion Sanders, Head Coach of the NY Giants in 2026. He sees the path.

Here are the links for the other two QBs

Sanders


https://nfl-video.com/cfb/pac_12_football/colorado_buffaloes_football/49


Ward

https://nfl-video.com/cfb/acc_football/miami_hurricanes_football/11

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2025, 01:04:26 PMI wanted to see how you would react if the shoe was on the other foot  ;)

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=72211.msg997640#msg997640

It's no fun when people start piling on, is it?

I have no idea at all what you are trying to convey Rich. This is a message board where people constantly hit a like button or post if they're in agreement (or not) in real time.

I felt upset at being publicly mocked in a place where I thought I was amongst friends (who sometimes agree and disagree)...I'm not overly good at spelling. Again, I thank Ed for his kind words in addressing it like a gentlemen.

Lets move on and enjoy the SuperBowl with family and friends

Quote from: Trench on February 09, 2025, 01:34:27 PMI have no idea at all what you are trying to convey Rich. This is a message board where people constantly hit a like button or post if they're in agreement (or not) in real time.

I felt upset at being publicly mocked in a place where I thought I was amongst friends (who sometimes agree and disagree)...I'm not overly good at spelling. Again, I thank Ed for his kind words in addressing it like a gentlemen.

Lets move on and enjoy the SuperBowl with family and friends

Like I said, it's not fun to pile on.  As someone who a college professor once called a "man handler of the English language," I am not going to make fun of someone else's spelling or grammar.   I will say that I have gotten much better over the years because I subscribe to Grammarly, which provides real-time spelling and grammar checking on my browser, Outlook, and Word.  You tend to pick up a thing or two if you get corrected enough times. 

Enjoy the game as well.  Frankly, with the Chiefs and the Eagles, I don't see any situation (short of the ground opening up and swallowing both teams) that I will be enjoying the game. :D

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 09, 2025, 01:59:25 PMLike I said, it's not fun to pile on.  As someone who a college professor once called a "man handler of the English language," I am not going to make fun of someone else's spelling or grammar.   I will say that I have gotten much better over the years because I subscribe to Grammarly, which provides real-time spelling and grammar checking on my browser, Outlook, and Word.  You tend to pick up a thing or two if you get corrected enough times. 

Enjoy the game as well.  Frankly, with the Chiefs and the Eagles, I don't see any situation (short of the ground opening up and swallowing both teams) that I will be enjoying the game. :D

I can't root for the Eagles whatsoever. Just can't. Nor can I root for Barkley. I know Giants were probably in the wrong on him (Schoen), but it takes two to tangle and had he wanted to be back he could've.

I just hope the refs aren't the show

Since it was Sanders birthday Friday I thought that age conversation was a good one to have. With Ward and Sanders being 23, and Dart being 21. Does that move the needle with anyone like level of competition, or does it not matter?

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1889037089989370171

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 10, 2025, 04:00:51 PMhttps://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1889037089989370171

This is why you hear a ton of scouts have Dart #2 on a lot of boards.

Sanders didn't dominate significantly weaker teams in Div2 or at Colorado. Kansas and Nebraska were not good, yet Dan pointed out how bad the tape was. Only 2 300 yard games with Travis hunter as your Wr vs Div 2. A 23 yr old that holds the ball entirely too long, doesn't really go deep, doesn't elevate talent around him, doesn't flow through progressions, and I could go on.

I know we need a Qb badly but at least let's take a gamble on a young guy, that elevated the guys around him, and will sling the ball down the damn field. Give me Dart or Mccord, both have the intangibles, ice in their veins, and will chunk it deep.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 10, 2025, 10:51:18 PMThis is why you hear a ton of scouts have Dart #2 on a lot of boards.

Sanders didn't dominate significantly weaker teams in Div2 or at Colorado. Kansas and Nebraska were not good, yet Dan pointed out how bad the tape was. Only 2 300 yard games with Travis hunter as your Wr vs Div 2. A 23 yr old that holds the ball entirely too long, doesn't really go deep, doesn't elevate talent around him, doesn't flow through progressions, and I could go on.

I know we need a Qb badly but at least let's take a gamble on a young guy, that elevated the guys around him, and will sling the ball down the damn field. Give me Dart or Mccord, both have the intangibles, ice in their veins, and will chunk it deep.

You cant underestimate level of competition when analyzing players.  Travis Hunter is good but he did not ahut down the level of competition that Will Johnson did at Michigan.  Same with Dart vs Sanders.  Sanders did not dominate however neither did Josh Allen at Wyoming.  The difference is that Allen brought the physicals like arm strength and his weaknesses could be corrected.  Can you correct Sanders flaws as easily?  I doubt his arm talent improves a lot more.

Everyone here needs to get used to the idea that whoever is picked by the Giants at QB will not be a savior. It's just one of those years. And that includes the mediocre list of free agents. Schoen and Daboll will do what they can with what they can, but it will not be enough to make the Giants much better or save their jobs. Mara kicked the can for a year and though he is an idiot, it might be the best thing for the future of the Giants. A new regime will come in and when there are better QB prospects available, will, we can only hope, grab one even if Schoen grabs one of these middling prospects this year. I am a long time Giant fan and this is what I hope for. I must write off 2025 and hope the clueless owner finds capable replacements that can guide the franchise in the long term future. In the words of Porky Pig: "That's all Folks."

Field Yates just did a mock draft.

Hunter and Carter go one and two

The Giants take Cam Ward with the 3rd

The Raiders take Sanders with the 6th

The Steelers take Dart with the 21st

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2025/insider/story/_/id/43735323/2025-nfl-mock-draft-field-yates-first-round-predictions-32-picks

Quote from: katkavage on February 11, 2025, 07:10:35 AMEveryone here needs to get used to the idea that whoever is picked by the Giants at QB will not be a savior. It's just one of those years. And that includes the mediocre list of free agents. Schoen and Daboll will do what they can with what they can, but it will not be enough to make the Giants much better or save their jobs. Mara kicked the can for a year and though he is an idiot, it might be the best thing for the future of the Giants. A new regime will come in and when there are better QB prospects available, will, we can only hope, grab one even if Schoen grabs one of these middling prospects this year. I am a long time Giant fan and this is what I hope for. I must write off 2025 and hope the clueless owner finds capable replacements that can guide the franchise in the long term future. In the words of Porky Pig: "That's all Folks."

I'm sure alot of people were saying similar when the starting QBs in the SB that just ended were drafted, Mahomes fell to #10, Hurts was a second round pick, both have now played multiple SBs.

Listening to what mock drafts tell you, is seldomly accurate.

With that said, I'm not a fan of Sanders at this point, I liked him early in the year but have soured quite a bit on him.

Quote from: MrGap92 on February 11, 2025, 08:24:49 AMI'm sure alot of people were saying similar when the starting QBs in the SB that just ended were drafted, Mahomes fell to #10, Hurts was a second round pick, both have now played multiple SBs.

Listening to what mock drafts tell you, is seldomly accurate.

With that said, I'm not a fan of Sanders at this point, I liked him early in the year but have soured quite a bit on him.

They say the best time to draft a QB is when you don't need one.  The Chiefs and the Eagles had established veteran starters when they drafted their new QB.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 11, 2025, 08:39:01 AMThey say the best time to draft a QB is when you don't need one.  The Chiefs and the Eagles had established veteran starters when they drafted their new QB.

Evaluation and coaching, not timing, are the keys. Do the Giants have good QB talent evaluators, is the question.

Quote from: T200 on February 11, 2025, 09:50:29 AMEvaluation and coaching, not timing, are the keys. Do the Giants have good QB talent evaluators, is the question.

Tim,

Part of the reason the whole "draft a QB" when you don't need one works is they can take the gamble.  The Chiefs traded up to the 10th pick in the draft to get Mahomes.  If the Chiefs didn't have a starting QB, that's a pretty big gamble to see a QB you believe can be an elite franchise QB and hope 9 other teams pass.   Had another team grabbed him before they could, they no doubt had a different direction they would have headed.

Jalen Hurts even more illustrated that point, as there was no way the Eagles could be sure that Hurts would last all the way to pick 53.

That's the best part about drafting a QB when you don't need one.  You can play games and take risks that help you marry value to your efforts to obtain another or potentially better QB

Brugler released his top 100 (paywall)

Here is where the QBs rank

Ward- 15
Sanders- 25
Dart- 57
Slough- 59
Milroe- 61
Howard- 84

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6109189/2025/02/11/nfl-draft-2025-prospect-rankings-top-100/

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 11, 2025, 12:05:27 PMBrugler released his top 100 (paywall)

Here is where the QBs rank

Ward- 15
Sanders- 25
Dart- 57
Slough- 59
Milroe- 61
Howard- 84

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6109189/2025/02/11/nfl-draft-2025-prospect-rankings-top-100/

Ward and Sanders will remain the top two. Dart might sneak into the first round for a QB hungry team.

I know he isn't in the title, but McCord seems like a popular prospect here


Hey all,
Back with the next installment of my 2025 NFL Draft Scouting Reports! This week, I'm doing an in-depth analysis of Syracuse quarterback, Kyle McCord! You can get to the video and article that have full details of the grade breakdowns with the links below:
YouTube Video Link: https://youtu.be/kq_NIeKFbmI (https://youtu.be/kq_NIeKFbmI)
Article Link: https://open.substack.com/pub/backseatscout/p/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-scouting-92b?r=4g3h7y&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false (https://open.substack.com/pub/backseatscout/p/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-scouting-92b?r=4g3h7y&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false)
Also, if you want to check my 2024 grades for QBs and other players, you can check them out with this link here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z_lZ_eUMcdywnUwiyOejaUnkDlf3gd6R2SiefqEDLnY/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z_lZ_eUMcdywnUwiyOejaUnkDlf3gd6R2SiefqEDLnY/edit?usp=sharing)
Kyle McCord, Syracuse
Height: 6'3"; Weight: 220 pounds
Age on Draft Day: 22 years and 7 months
Class: Senior
Overall Grade: 2.69/4 (May Have a Future Role)
2024 Stats:
Passing: 391/592 (66%); 4779 yards; 34 TDs; 12 INTs
Rushing: 67 carries; -65 yards; 3 TDs; 5 Fumbles
2024 Games Charted: Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Cal, Miami
Totals from Games Charted:
Short Throw Accuracy on Platform: 85/102 (83%)
Short Throw Accuracy off Platform: 43/60 (71.67%)
Medium Throw Accuracy on Platform: 84/116 (72.41%)
Medium Throw Accuracy off Platform: 19/26 (73.08%)
Intermediate Throw Accuracy on Platform: 34/54 (62.96%)
Intermediate Accuracy off Platform: 0/6 (0%)
Deep Throw Accuracy on Platform: 6/10 (60%)
Deep Throw Accuracy off Platform: N/A
Left Side of Field Accuracy: 122/162 (75.31%)
Middle of Field Accuracy: 36/46 (78.26%)
Right Side of Field Accuracy: 113/166 (68.07%)
Total Accuracy: 271/374 (72.46%)
On Platform, Way Off Target Throws (Vertical/Horizontal): 5/7 (1.25/1.75 per game)
Off Platform, Way Off Target Throws (Vertical/Horizontal): 2/4 (0.5/1 per game)
Sacks/Fumbles: 10/2 (2.5/0.5 per game)
Deflections/Pass Interference: 6/2 (1.5/0.5 per game)
Throwaways/INTs/Dropped INTs: 8/5/6 (2/1.25/1.5 per game)
Drops: 6 (1.5 per game)
Designed Runs/Scrambles: 8/4 (2/1 per game)
Success vs Blitz: 45/82 (54.88%)
Success vs Pressure: 56/104 (53.85%)
Footwork: D+
Pocket Presence: B-
"Playmaking": C-
Short Throw Accuracy: A-
Medium Throw Accuracy: B+
Intermediate Throw Accuracy: B
Deep Throw Accuracy: B+
Throw on the Run: B+
Success Against Pressure/Blitz: B-
Arm Strength: B-
Release: B+
Ball Security: C+
Top Starter Potential: C-
Final Strengths:

• Gutsy passer
• Protects pass catchers
• Release
• Often gets the ball out quickly
• Accuracy in all areas of the field

Final Areas of Improvement:

• Footwork
• Can get hot/cold
• Loses track of pass rush on deeper concepts
• Lots of staring down his read
• Turnover-prone

Comp: Bailey Zappe
Current QB Rankings:

• Cam Ward, Miami (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1hqfzn6/cam_ward_2025_nfl_draft_eval_with_charting/); Overall Grade: 3.05 (Good Starter)
• Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1hvtvzu/shedeur_sanders_2025_nfl_draft_eval_with_charting/); Overall Grade: 3 (Good Starter)
• Jaxson Dart, Ole Miss (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1i16oj1/backseat_scouts_jaxson_dart_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.77 (Good Role Player)
• Kyle McCord, Syracuse; Overall Grade: 2.69 (May Have a Future Role)
• Will Howard, Ohio State (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1ihi8ps/backseat_scouts_will_howard_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.67 (May Have a Future Role)
• Jalen Milroe, Alabama (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1ic23jw/backseat_scouts_jalen_milroe_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.46 (Needs Improvement to Contribute)
• Quinn Ewers, Texas (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1i6j6ge/backseat_scouts_quinn_ewers_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.39 (Needs Improvement to Contribute)

https://old.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1imz555/backseat_scouts_kyle_mccord_2025_nfl_draft_eval/

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 11, 2025, 12:54:54 PMI know he isn't in the title, but McCord seems like a popular prospect here


Hey all,
Back with the next installment of my 2025 NFL Draft Scouting Reports! This week, I'm doing an in-depth analysis of Syracuse quarterback, Kyle McCord! You can get to the video and article that have full details of the grade breakdowns with the links below:
YouTube Video Link: https://youtu.be/kq_NIeKFbmI (https://youtu.be/kq_NIeKFbmI)
Article Link: https://open.substack.com/pub/backseatscout/p/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-scouting-92b?r=4g3h7y&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false (https://open.substack.com/pub/backseatscout/p/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-scouting-92b?r=4g3h7y&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false)
Also, if you want to check my 2024 grades for QBs and other players, you can check them out with this link here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z_lZ_eUMcdywnUwiyOejaUnkDlf3gd6R2SiefqEDLnY/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z_lZ_eUMcdywnUwiyOejaUnkDlf3gd6R2SiefqEDLnY/edit?usp=sharing)
Kyle McCord, Syracuse
Height: 6'3"; Weight: 220 pounds
Age on Draft Day: 22 years and 7 months
Class: Senior
Overall Grade: 2.69/4 (May Have a Future Role)
2024 Stats:
Passing: 391/592 (66%); 4779 yards; 34 TDs; 12 INTs
Rushing: 67 carries; -65 yards; 3 TDs; 5 Fumbles
2024 Games Charted: Georgia Tech, Pittsburgh, Cal, Miami
Totals from Games Charted:
Short Throw Accuracy on Platform: 85/102 (83%)
Short Throw Accuracy off Platform: 43/60 (71.67%)
Medium Throw Accuracy on Platform: 84/116 (72.41%)
Medium Throw Accuracy off Platform: 19/26 (73.08%)
Intermediate Throw Accuracy on Platform: 34/54 (62.96%)
Intermediate Accuracy off Platform: 0/6 (0%)
Deep Throw Accuracy on Platform: 6/10 (60%)
Deep Throw Accuracy off Platform: N/A
Left Side of Field Accuracy: 122/162 (75.31%)
Middle of Field Accuracy: 36/46 (78.26%)
Right Side of Field Accuracy: 113/166 (68.07%)
Total Accuracy: 271/374 (72.46%)
On Platform, Way Off Target Throws (Vertical/Horizontal): 5/7 (1.25/1.75 per game)
Off Platform, Way Off Target Throws (Vertical/Horizontal): 2/4 (0.5/1 per game)
Sacks/Fumbles: 10/2 (2.5/0.5 per game)
Deflections/Pass Interference: 6/2 (1.5/0.5 per game)
Throwaways/INTs/Dropped INTs: 8/5/6 (2/1.25/1.5 per game)
Drops: 6 (1.5 per game)
Designed Runs/Scrambles: 8/4 (2/1 per game)
Success vs Blitz: 45/82 (54.88%)
Success vs Pressure: 56/104 (53.85%)
Footwork: D+
Pocket Presence: B-
"Playmaking": C-
Short Throw Accuracy: A-
Medium Throw Accuracy: B+
Intermediate Throw Accuracy: B
Deep Throw Accuracy: B+
Throw on the Run: B+
Success Against Pressure/Blitz: B-
Arm Strength: B-
Release: B+
Ball Security: C+
Top Starter Potential: C-
Final Strengths:

• Gutsy passer
• Protects pass catchers
• Release
• Often gets the ball out quickly
• Accuracy in all areas of the field

Final Areas of Improvement:

• Footwork
• Can get hot/cold
• Loses track of pass rush on deeper concepts
• Lots of staring down his read
• Turnover-prone

Comp: Bailey Zappe
Current QB Rankings:

• Cam Ward, Miami (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1hqfzn6/cam_ward_2025_nfl_draft_eval_with_charting/); Overall Grade: 3.05 (Good Starter)
• Shedeur Sanders, Colorado (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1hvtvzu/shedeur_sanders_2025_nfl_draft_eval_with_charting/); Overall Grade: 3 (Good Starter)
• Jaxson Dart, Ole Miss (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1i16oj1/backseat_scouts_jaxson_dart_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.77 (Good Role Player)
• Kyle McCord, Syracuse; Overall Grade: 2.69 (May Have a Future Role)
• Will Howard, Ohio State (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1ihi8ps/backseat_scouts_will_howard_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.67 (May Have a Future Role)
• Jalen Milroe, Alabama (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1ic23jw/backseat_scouts_jalen_milroe_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.46 (Needs Improvement to Contribute)
• Quinn Ewers, Texas (https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1i6j6ge/backseat_scouts_quinn_ewers_2025_nfl_draft_eval/); Overall Grade: 2.39 (Needs Improvement to Contribute)

https://old.reddit.com/r/NFL_Draft/comments/1imz555/backseat_scouts_kyle_mccord_2025_nfl_draft_eval/

My Bo Nix of 2025.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 11, 2025, 01:58:32 PMMy Bo Nix of 2025.

It may just be me but I would be more ecstatic with the Giants taking Dart or Mccord even at 3, than if they took Sanders at 3.

Here is the write-up on McCord by the same person who posted all the stats and grades:


Now I have to admit, after watching Kyle McCord at Ohio State in 2023, I expected to not even have him as a serious quarterback prospect for this year. However, he really grew on me the more I watched him. For better or for worse, he's a gunslinger who won't shy away from throws. It doesn't happen very often with quarterbacks with less-than-stellar arms but some of the throws he went for and converted on will make you go "wow" with the amount of guts it had to take that throw. Just getting away from football for a second, it was just really great to see someone who was essentially wanted out by his former teammates/coworkers and left the program/area with little confidence become such a confident individual. But storylines aside, what transferred with McCord to Syracuse was his great release. He likely has the cleanest release mechanics in the class with very little dip and not too much depth in his pullback. He also has a good feel for release points to put nice touch on his throws. It's just such a snappy, quick release that combined with his quick decision making made things very frustrating for pass rushers who didn't have a chance to make a play. In general, he's pretty reliable in getting the ball out before pressure gets to him leading to a lot of success against pressure/blitzes. Also, mechanically he can usually do a good job getting his feet quickly turned in time to his receivers on short patterns. Even under pressure, he also does a good job knowing where to place the ball to protect his pass catcher, which I'm sure they greatly appreciate. He definitely can be a bit of a hot and cold passer at times but when he's in a rhythm, he looks great. Finally, while he can get stuck staring down his pass catchers, he does a good job identifying his best option and knows when and where to get the ball to him.

That being said, that tendency to stare down his pass catcher is the scariest thing for me when evaluating McCord. There are so many times when his eyes are frozen and just completely key in the defense where the ball is going. We saw Pitt punish him all game for this and that will be a regular thing in the NFL if he doesn't adapt. What makes this tendency to stare down his pass catcher even worse is his stubbornness to try to force throws to his first-read whether it's taken away from him or not. His newfound confidence is good to see and needed by a quarterback but he needs to reel it in a bit. The times he does go through progressions he can find himself being a tick slow at getting the ball to his pass catchers leaving an opening for the defender to make a play. Also, McCord was fairly decent at throwing with anticipation if it was to his first read despite being new to the program but he still had a lot of times when he waited well after the pass catcher made his cut to make the throw. As for his control in the pocket, he can be a bit delayed in recognizing pressure and has trouble multitasking when he's required to read the defense. He can also get a bit too overconfident in his athleticism and end up taking sacks when he had the chance for a throwaway or checkdown. I'd also like to see a bit more positive movement from him in the pocket and not just trail back like he tends to do. That can make things very difficult for him especially since he has a solid, but not great arm to drive it when moving backward. Even when he's not moving backward, his velocity can sometimes be lacking on throws, especially to the opposite side of the field which also makes him more turnover-prone. While his release is really clean, there are times when he is trying to get more air under the ball where it will have a bit of a windup and flare out. He also tries to throw at different arm angles at times but it doesn't always work out and he doesn't have the arm to get those throws too far past the line of scrimmage. Mechanically, things are very, very messy. He didn't do a lot of standard dropbacks with a lot of simplified set and throw or three-step drop throws but the times he did a more standard dropback, it was pretty heel-clicky with his drop base being way too narrow at times. In general, I think his base width from the pocket can be all over the place and gets really messy when he's under pressure. As I mentioned before, he can get hot and go cold at times and his footwork is often a factor of him going into a cold streak. While his accuracy as a whole is good, there are a lot of throws that make you go, "Hhhh, what was that?" due to them being so off target due to bad lower body mechanics. He also has a tendency to put too much weight on his back foot when throwing the ball which also contributed to a number of these way off throws. He also has a tendency to bounce in the pocket and can sometimes get stuck on his toes when throwing the ball. Finally, while on the move, he doesn't always do a great job getting his chest and toes square to his target leading to some inaccurate throws, especially downfield.

McCord is a player I think I would have been a big fan of in past years but I'd like to believe I've been improving as an evaluator and notice warning signs of trouble. While his accuracy, release, and newfound confidence are great, he also needs to dial back the confidence and improve the way he reads a defense. I think the Kyle McCord watch/eval experience will have most people go "Okay, he's doing better than I expected. Wow, that was a crazy pass. Can't believe he got that in there. Alright, this guy might be my sleeper for this year... What the hell was that throw??? Okay, he's doing good again." It can feel like a rollercoaster with a lot of highs but some real low lows with the Pitt game as the ultimate example of how bad things can go. If he does improve in his decision making and ability to read a defense, I think he could be a solid backup quarterback for a team. But as things stand now I just worry that NFL defenses would eat him alive. As for a comp, to comp him to another quarterback I was high on who did not pan out but now recognizing where things went wrong, I have Bailey Zappe as McCord's comp. Both have a twitchy, fast release that lets them fit the ball into tight windows and before pressure can hit home while also having some really solid accuracy to all areas of the field. However, both can get fixated on their first read, lack great arm strength, and have really messy footwork. Also, both can get overconfident in their athletic ability leading to unnecessary sacks, and in their ability to make a throw leading to bad interceptions. Zappe has started to be tossed around the NFL due to not being able to quickly read an NFL defense and not having the arm talent to overcome this deficit and I have concerns that the same could happen to McCord. If he does make that adjustment, he could have a very long career as a backup quarterback.

https://backseatscout.substack.com/p/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-scouting-92b?r=4g3h7y&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

Jaxson Dart is in ELITE company heading into the NFL Combine.

Since 2010, only 9 QB's have received combine invites while being younger than 22, playing 30+ games in college, and holding a total QBR of at least 80 in their final season:

• Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)
• Lamar Jackson (Ravens)
• Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars)
• Jared Goff (Lions)
• Jalen Hurts (Eagles)
• Deshaun Watson (Browns)
• Marcus Mariota (Commanders)
• Teddy Bridgewater (Lions)
• Jaxson Dart (TBD)

Many NFL scouts reportedly believe Dart is "worthy" of a Top-10 pick in this year's draft.

The Ole Miss QB is SET UP for success in the league 🍿

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1889099603829457287?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 11, 2025, 02:53:10 PMIt may just be me but I would be more ecstatic with the Giants taking Dart or Mccord even at 3, than if they took Sanders at 3.

I hate to say it but so do I. I was high on Sanders going into 2024, and he never lived up to my expectations. He does however have nice poise, motion and delivery. It's the competition he faced with Hunter and I expect more. Especially how their Bowl game went. I also didn't like him not participating in practice at the Shrine. I get why he wouldn't play, but the interaction with NFL Coaches and all the players was a positive thing.

I don't know a single Giants fan who wants Sanders (including myself).

Almost makes me wonder if he might actually be a little underrated.

Mel Kiper Jr. discloses bleak Cam Ward, Shedeur Sanders outlook on NFL draft boards: 'Some barely think they're in the top 20'

In short, Kiper isn't convinced the best quarterbacks in the draft class are guaranteed to have success in the NFL and teams may be better off trying to pick up a veteran QB in free agency.

"Do you take the best player, which in my opinion, is Travis Hunter, then go get a Sam Darnold? Or, do you take a Cam Ward and pass on the best player in the draft? It's going to be an interesting discussion," Kiper said.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/mel-kiper-jr-discloses-bleak-cam-ward-shedeur-sanders-outlook-on-nfl-draft-boards-some-barely-think-they-re-in-the-top-20/ar-AA1yQRzp?ocid=msedgntp&pc=NMTS&cvid=dff6ffc008234f86a2803b6023be7b4d&ei=12

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 11, 2025, 07:19:47 PMI hate to say it but so do I. I was high on Sanders going into 2024, and he never lived up to my expectations. He does however have nice poise, motion and delivery. It's the competition he faced with Hunter and I expect more. Especially how their Bowl game went. I also didn't like him not participating in practice at the Shrine. I get why he wouldn't play, but the interaction with NFL Coaches and all the players was a positive thing.

supposedly a top team told him they didn't want him participating and that's why he pulled out which makes it even worse in my opinion.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 11, 2025, 10:32:32 PMsupposedly a top team told him they didn't want him participating and that's why he pulled out which makes it even worse in my opinion.

It could have been they didn't want his stock to drop because they wanted another team to take him.

https://youtu.be/zL3PlUby_rY?si=5QXWaSf0PF9HEh6g

Anyone that's remotely interested in the Sanders v Dart v Ward debate should listen to McShay and Steve discuss the two starting at the 26 minute mark. Time stamps are in the description. As they've had time to watch the tape, it's amazing how perspectives change.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 11, 2025, 11:19:11 PMhttps://youtu.be/zL3PlUby_rY?si=5QXWaSf0PF9HEh6g

Anyone that's remotely interested in the Sanders v Dart v Ward debate should listen to McShay and Steve discuss the two starting at the 26 minute mark. Time stamps are in the description. As they've had time to watch the tape, it's amazing how perspectives change.

I listened to the podcast (by the way, if you're into the draft, the Todd McShay show is an excellent listen).   They laid out a strong case for Dart being QB 2.

I then listened to Tony Pauline on the Giants draft podcast.  He is down on Dart (arguing he didn't show a big-time arm at the Senior Bowl.  He seems to think that Milroe and Ewers have a chance to sneak into round one.

This is a more mixed view class than last year, where really only JJ was a polarizing prospect.

I listened to a couple, one on PFF and Dane Brugler from the Athletic. Both had Ward with the most upside. Sanders most pro ready but not a high upside. Dart second or third day pick.

I think anyone projecting Dart as a day 2 or day 3 pick right now makes me really rethink their judgement. Regardless of what anyone may think of Dart, some teams have him as their Qb2, and a lot have him as a top 10 pick. Not just one but more than a handful of scouts, and NFL analysts have said and reported as much. So even if you are down on him, he's going early to mid first, and the momentum is only going to pick up with the pro day and combine. Especially with so many teams needing a Qb and getting the 5th year on 1st rd picks, it virtually assures he gets taken there.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 12, 2025, 01:18:52 PMI think anyone projecting Dart as a day 2 or day 3 pick right now makes me really rethink their judgement. Regardless of what anyone may think of Dart, some teams have him as their Qb2, and a lot have him as a top 10 pick. Not just one but more than a handful of scouts, and NFL analysts have said and reported as much. So even if you are down on him, he's going early to mid first, and the momentum is only going to pick up with the pro day and combine. Especially with so many teams needing a Qb and getting the 5th year on 1st rd picks, it virtually assures he gets taken there.

The scouts I listened to...or the draft gurus who were at the Senior Bowl were not impressed at all. I see this as a big agent push for Dart. The comp for Sanders was Teddy Bridgewater. The comp for Dart was maybe Taylor Heinicke.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 12, 2025, 11:43:57 AMI listened to the podcast (by the way, if you're into the draft, the Todd McShay show is an excellent listen).  They laid out a strong case for Dart being QB 2.

I then listened to Tony Pauline on the Giants draft podcast.  He is down on Dart (arguing he didn't show a big-time arm at the Senior Bowl.  He seems to think that Milroe and Ewers have a chance to sneak into round one.

This is a more mixed view class than last year, where really only JJ was a polarizing prospect.

Yeah I loved it because they broke down the Florida game which many see as Darts worst game, they explained injuries everywhere, how his Wrs let him down, and yes he made a bone headed two plays bit even in his worst game, they were like wow. I also loved him breaking down Dart vs Drake Maye regarding athleticism and how Dart is always moving forward, always moving up in the pocket, unlike maye who goes horizontal too much. Those small things are amazing tidbits that I love to hear a scout breakdown so that I look for it going forward.

The Steve guy has done the big boards for scouts and espn for years so I respect his take.

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1889770853027459500

I think Ward slightly ahead of Sanders and Dart well behind both of them.

If it were about college production, all the BYU QBs and others would be enshrined in Canton.

If it were about arm strength JaMarcus Russell et al would be wearing yellow jackets as well.

Quote from: zbeaster on February 14, 2025, 02:35:43 PMI think Ward slightly ahead of Sanders and Dart well behind both of them.

What do you like about each?

Austin Abbott

@AustinAbbottFF
Jaxson Dart's Advanced Analytics:

➖11.9 Average Depth of Target
➖7.1% Big Time Throw Rate
➖10.7 Yards Per Attempt

They were ALL better than Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders

The most impressive part? Jaxson Dart accomplished this while having LESS time to throw (2.77) than them

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 15, 2025, 08:11:26 AMAustin Abbott

@AustinAbbottFF
Jaxson Dart's Advanced Analytics:

➖11.9 Average Depth of Target
➖7.1% Big Time Throw Rate
➖10.7 Yards Per Attempt

They were ALL better than Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders

The most impressive part? Jaxson Dart accomplished this while having LESS time to throw (2.77) than them

If Dart does well at the combines, I think he goes #1.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 15, 2025, 08:11:26 AMAustin Abbott

@AustinAbbottFF
Jaxson Dart's Advanced Analytics:

➖11.9 Average Depth of Target
➖7.1% Big Time Throw Rate
➖10.7 Yards Per Attempt

They were ALL better than Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders

The most impressive part? Jaxson Dart accomplished this while having LESS time to throw (2.77) than them

Mighty,

Is there any way to find out which QB had the toughest strength of schedule?

And which QB went up against the toughest defense?

If we could find that out, it can help in determining how they performed?

Thanks

Total college stats mean less because of the very wide disparity of talent across college teams.  A 1st round WR may be getting covered by a CB lucky to be going to graduate school.

When a QB on a good team has good weapons his stats are likely to be inflated.

Instead look at 25 different throws all over the field against his best competition with good coverage and see how those throws were and how many got completed.  This will be closer to what NFL games will be like.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 15, 2025, 08:11:26 AMAustin Abbott

@AustinAbbottFF
Jaxson Dart's Advanced Analytics:

➖11.9 Average Depth of Target
➖7.1% Big Time Throw Rate
➖10.7 Yards Per Attempt

They were ALL better than Cam Ward and Shedeur Sanders

The most impressive part? Jaxson Dart accomplished this while having LESS time to throw (2.77) than them

How much impact does the different type of offenses factor in?  I have no idea as I've not paid attention to these guys, but stats like this in college often correlate to the system being run.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 15, 2025, 09:53:43 AMMighty,

Is there any way to find out which QB had the toughest strength of schedule?

And which QB went up against the toughest defense?

If we could find that out, it can help in determining how they performed?

Thanks

Dart
Strength of record 13
Strength of schedule 37

Sanders
Strength of record 30
Strength of schedule 65

Ward
Strength of record 21
Strength of schedule 56

It's not even close

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 15, 2025, 12:04:44 PMDart
Strength of record 13
Strength of schedule 37

Sanders
Strength of record 30
Strength of schedule 65

Ward
Strength of record 21
Strength of schedule 56

It's not even close

Bam!

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 15, 2025, 12:04:44 PMDart
Strength of record 13
Strength of schedule 37

Sanders
Strength of record 30
Strength of schedule 65

Ward
Strength of record 21
Strength of schedule 56

It's not even close

Okay thank you for this, but just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, Dart had the hardest schedule to face?

Also are there any links that show how they performed against teams with a top defense?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on February 15, 2025, 03:26:09 PMOkay thank you for this, but just to make sure I'm reading this correctly, Dart had the hardest schedule to face?

Also are there any links that show how they performed against teams with a top defense?

37 hardest Schedule and 13th most impressive record given the strength of schedule.

Just look up their stats, with the context that the ACC and Big12 have a weaker conference compared to the SEC.

Matt Waldman has good play breakdowns of Ward, Sanders, and Dart in his timeline (also Howard if you are interested)


https://x.com/MattWaldman

The more I watch of Ward and Sanders, the more I like Dart. Not that any of these QBs are day one starters imo, but you have to decipher what translates to the next level and what does not. I think Ward is an NFL QB, but there are too many instances where he's inconsistent.

He has a very good arm and can throw with anticipation and velocity outside the numbers, even from the opposite hash. He uses the ground to draw power to his throws and has beautiful disconnect with his hips and his left leg with a nice motion. But he misses some deep throws; he also misses seeing open Receivers downfield. There are times where he gets a pre-snap read, and just goes to an intended Reeiver. When he does that he tends to drift in the pocket to that Receiver. I think there are times he sees it and makes the throw with nice anticipation, but there are times where he doesn't like it or gives up on the route too soon. I've seen him take sacks on 4th down. I've seen him with space to run for a First down, and he doesn't take it. I've seen his pass get tipped too many times.

He doesn't have the best supporting cast around him, so you have to figure that in. He gets plenty of time in the pocket that he will not get in the Pros, and he needs to process faster to the release. They did a lot of 2x2 and 3x1 variations. The O-line can't Run Block for xxxx and the RPO will need work as well as his handoff. He will be asked to run Read Option and take snaps Under Center, and I didn't see it.

If I rated Drake Maye a 9, I would rate him a 7. He's got good bones though, and with the right team and Coach, he can have a solid career. My guess is that he's not at the top of Daboll's list. A lot will get sorted out at the Combine.   

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 17, 2025, 01:16:26 PMThe more I watch of Ward and Sanders, the more I like Dart. Not that any of these QBs are day one starters imo, but you have to decipher what translates to the next level and what does not. I think Ward is an NFL QB, but there are too many instances where he's inconsistent.

He has a very good arm and can throw with anticipation and velocity outside the numbers, even from the opposite hash. He uses the ground to draw power to his throws and has beautiful disconnect with his hips and his left leg with a nice motion. But he misses some deep throws; he also misses seeing open Receivers downfield. There are times where he gets a pre-snap read, and just goes to an intended Reeiver. When he does that he tends to drift in the pocket to that Receiver. I think there are times he sees it and makes the throw with nice anticipation, but there are times where he doesn't like it or gives up on the route too soon. I've seen him take sacks on 4th down. I've seen him with space to run for a First down, and he doesn't take it. I've seen his pass get tipped too many times.

He doesn't have the best supporting cast around him, so you have to figure that in. He gets plenty of time in the pocket that he will not get in the Pros, and he needs to process faster to the release. They did a lot of 2x2 and 3x1 variations. The O-line can't Run Block for xxxx and the RPO will need work as well as his handoff. He will be asked to run Read Option and take snaps Under Center, and I didn't see it.

If I rated Drake Maye a 9, I would rate him a 7. He's got good bones though, and with the right team and Coach, he can have a solid career. My guess is that he's not at the top of Daboll's list. A lot will get sorted out at the Combine.   

Could be an assumption but I always thought Daboll loved going deep early to set up the quick game and immediate with a running Qb. Out of all of these guys Dart fits that mold to a T, kid basically Raj that offense in college, huge deep shots followed by quick game to athletes in space, and when in doubt run and hurt ppl. I wish I could find cut ups of Darts runs the past two years, I think ppl would fall in love with him on his running style allow, kud doesn't give an inch.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 02, 2025, 05:19:06 PMI figured I would create a chart.  The traits chart was generated via AI.  Most of the stats are self-explanatory.  The PFF offense grade vs the PFF QB grade gives a sense of how much the offense helped the QB's performance.  The Big Time Throw Rate (I believe it should be better than 5%) and Turnover Worthy Plays (should be under 4%) are under pressure.  I also feel like Dart can be developed quicker and has a surer chance of developing than Cam Ward

(https://i.imgur.com/7wYtDEh.jpeg)

i feel like sanders is a little over rated here. from everything i hear, his arm strength disappears over 25-30 yards. so to say he has above average arm strength and deep ball, i'm not sure i agree there. Its tricky, cause he is the most pro ready, but has the least modern era pro traits. I'm not taking any of them until the late 1st at best.

If it were as straightforward as just using a combo of stats and strength of schedule/opposing defenses, then Bama QBs would have been can't-miss picks over the years. And unfortunately, in reality, the opposite has pretty much been the case.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 17, 2025, 02:48:55 PMIf it were as straightforward as just using a combo of stats and strength of schedule/opposing defenses, then Bama QBs would have been can't-miss picks over the years. And unfortunately, in reality, the opposite has pretty much been the case.

Jake Coker and Blake Sims never put up Jaxson Dart stats though. Imagine all the talent they had at Alabama and still were mediocre, now add that talent to ole miss, but they all get injured and he still throws for 4200, 26tds and runs for another 500 yards and 3 tds. His top 2 wrs, top 2 rbs, and TEs were out for the Arkansas game along with 3 olineman so what does he do? Throws for 500, of which 254 yards and 5tds to his Wr3 lol. To an sec opponent.

One QB I am starting to hear a lot of is Tyler Shough.  He will be 26 this year thanks to Covid and injury.   So say if he were 22 he would be up there with Ward and Sanders

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 12, 2025, 01:18:52 PMI think anyone projecting Dart as a day 2 or day 3 pick right now makes me really rethink their judgement. Regardless of what anyone may think of Dart, some teams have him as their Qb2, and a lot have him as a top 10 pick. Not just one but more than a handful of scouts, and NFL analysts have said and reported as much. So even if you are down on him, he's going early to mid first, and the momentum is only going to pick up with the pro day and combine. Especially with so many teams needing a Qb and getting the 5th year on 1st rd picks, it virtually assures he gets taken there.

98% of mocks have Dart going Day 2 or later. And yes, I get that they're just as wrong as anyone else, but we're not talking 50-50 here. NFL.com, PFF, Tank-a-thon, Walter Football -- all recently updated, and none with Dart in the first.

And none of this is to say that it's inconceivable that he goes in round 1. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to QBs. But overwhelming consensus continues to place Dart outside of the 1st.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 17, 2025, 03:10:33 PMJake Coker and Blake Sims never put up Jaxson Dart stats though. Imagine all the talent they had at Alabama and still were mediocre, now add that talent to ole miss, but they all get injured and he still throws for 4200, 26tds and runs for another 500 yards and 3 tds. His top 2 wrs, top 2 rbs, and TEs were out for the Arkansas game along with 3 olineman so what does he do? Throws for 500, of which 254 yards and 5tds to his Wr3 lol. To an sec opponent.

To be fair in the only year Sims really played, he led the SEC in TDs, yards per attempt, and rating, and he was second in passing yards. Tough to call that mediocre.

Coker I think illustrates your point better but even he really only played one year and put up pretty decent numbers against an SEC schedule.

BTW, to be clear, I like Dart and am leaning fairly bullish on him at the moment. My point was just more general in that I don't think there is any single methodology to apply to these QB prospects that yields consistently reliable predictive results.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 17, 2025, 03:28:22 PM98% of mocks have Dart going Day 2 or later. And yes, I get that they're just as wrong as anyone else, but we're not talking 50-50 here. NFL.com, PFF, Tank-a-thon, Walter Football -- all recently updated, and none with Dart in the first.

And none of this is to say that it's inconceivable that he goes in round 1. Nothing would surprise me when it comes to QBs. But overwhelming consensus continues to place Dart outside of the 1st.

No I get that but with the need for qbs as they are, most have him as a top 50 prospect, but when the dust settles someone whether it be the Jets, steelers etc are taking him in the 1st out of need and just the overall value. Same with a CB or pass rusher that may be 40th or ranked 36th as a prospect, they will likely always go in the 1st because it's a premium position.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 17, 2025, 03:35:30 PMTo be fair in the only year Sims really played, he led the SEC in TDs, yards per attempt, and rating, and he was second in passing yards. Tough to call that mediocre.

Coker I think illustrates your point better but even he really only played one year and put up pretty decent numbers against an SEC schedule.

BTW, to be clear, I like Dart and am leaning fairly bullish on him at the moment. My point was just more general in that I don't think there is any single methodology to apply to these QB prospects that yields consistently reliable predictive results.

No I agree, otherwise every OSU Qb would have been elite. It's why some were down on Stroud, and ultimately why I think the Panthers took young. Helmet scouting at its finest. I was more talking about it in the sense of Daniel Jones who was behind mediocre in college and that continued. It's hard to find a qb outside Josh Allen or Farve who had mediocre college career translate to a great pro career.

Amazing what Lane Kiffin did with a safety isn't it? Blake Sims was a safety at Alabama, and kiffin was like I want him to try Qb and turned him into a 2× national championship winner.

What makes these evaluations hard is that the oc or head coach can talk to the qb for the first 15 seconds of each play. So if you play fast like an ole miss who snaps the ball faster than almost anyone. You can get to the line, have an offensive genius like kiffin breakdown the defensive play call in 10 seconds, before Dart hikes the ball.

Was grinding high school tape today and Wr Boobie Feaster jumped off the screen. He just reclassified from 2027 to 2026, and he's the next Jeremiah Smith/Ryan Williams. I know wrong thread but didn't want to start a new one especially for a high school prospect.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 17, 2025, 03:42:34 PMNo I agree, otherwise every OSU Qb would have been elite. It's why some were down on Stroud, and ultimately why I think the Panthers took young. Helmet scouting at its finest. I was more talking about it in the sense of Daniel Jones who was behind mediocre in college and that continued. It's hard to find a qb outside Josh Allen or Farve who had mediocre college career translate to a great pro career.

Amazing what Lane Kiffin did with a safety isn't it? Blake Sims was a safety at Alabama, and kiffin was like I want him to try Qb and turned him into a 2× national championship winner.

Excellent point. The ratio of college QBs who were meh or worse in college but very good or great in the pros to QBs who were very good or great in college but meh or worse in the pros is tiny.

There are only a small handful of the former but a countless list of the latter.

I guess one can reasonably conclude from that reality that it takes a certain degree of either balls or foolishness to draft a QB who was mediocre or bad in college.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 17, 2025, 04:45:15 PMExcellent point. The ratio of college QBs who were meh or worse in college but very good or great in the pros to QBs who were very good or great in college but meh or worse in the pros is tiny.

There are only a small handful of the former but a countless list of the latter.

I guess one can reasonably conclude from that reality that it takes a certain degree of either balls or foolishness to draft a QB who was mediocre or bad in college.

Yeah I think the two. Closest to that would be Josh Allen and maybe even Jordan Love, but I genuinely think the organization and talent around them elevated them early until finding their footing. So now not only do you need to find a great qb in the draft but marry them with a great organization to have those Josh Allen results.

https://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1891896742196502712

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 18, 2025, 03:07:07 PMhttps://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1891896742196502712

maybe I am missing something but while it was a nice throw, I don't know that it was anything that popped off the screen for me. Ward is miles better than Sanders in my opinion, but the pro comps for him are a little unsettling. I've seen anywhere from Josh Allen, Geno Smith, Jameis Winston, and Baker Mayfield.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 18, 2025, 03:07:07 PMhttps://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1891896742196502712

Is it me? Or does Cam Ward come across as being lazy on some of his plays?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 18, 2025, 04:03:42 PMmaybe I am missing something but while it was a nice throw, I don't know that it was anything that popped off the screen for me. Ward is miles better than Sanders in my opinion, but the pro comps for him are a little unsettling. I've seen anywhere from Josh Allen, Geno Smith, Jameis Winston, and Baker Mayfield.

Before I read your post I was in the process of typing something similar. I am perplexed as to why anyone would view this as a remarkable play. It looks like a pretty easy throw to me, certainly for any power 5 starting QB. Unless I'm missing something?

"He's a solid player," texted an AFC director of college scouting. "He's small but also erratic with the ball. He's a gambler. Not sure he has enough magic to have so much gamble. He will be a starter but a bottom 15 one."

"I watched him last year, and this year, he looks the same," said an NFC general manager. "He's a poor man's Russell Wilson to me."

"If he was in last year's class, he would have been the seventh-rated guy behind Bo [Nix]," said an AFC national scout. "He's a distributor, not a gifted athlete. Holds the ball too long, has to get his internal clock better, makes plays off script. I think you could win with him, but not because of him."

Ward looks like a future NFL starter, but team sources are not convinced that Ward will be a top-10 starting quarterback as a pro. Some feel you can win with him, but not necessarily because of him. However, others feel that Ward is a real gamer, a great competitor, and a winner. Thus, Ward has some boom/bust potential for the NFL.

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreports2025cward.php

Last season an area scout told me this about Sanders:


"He won't wow with physical tools, .... But his arm is good enough, especially in the short and intermediary. Mentally, he can operate at incredible speed. He could be the most NFL ready as far as football I.Q.; he bleeds confidence and charisma. He'll own a team immediately because of his competitiveness and obvious advantage having grown up in the rare NFL bubble. Pro ball will not scare him."

Geno Smith. A number of sources have said that Sanders reminds them of Smith in terms of his skill set and passing ability. One area scout who has been studying Sanders for years said that the comp is pretty good. They feel that Sanders is a better athlete than Smith, but Smith was a better deep ball thrower entering the NFL

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreports2025SSanders.php

Jaxson Dart

Gardner Minshew. Team sources have compared Minshew in terms of his skill set and style of play. Minshew is a fringe starter and a very good backup. Dart could be a similar pro.

https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreports2025jdart.php

Here is an excellent article breaking down all the stats on the QB prospects and comparing those stats with last year's draft class


Vital statistics: What you need to know about the quarterbacks in the 2025 draft

https://seahawksdraftblog.com/vital-statistics-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-quarterbacks-in-the-draft

It's why I'd rather have Fields and go QB next year and n Draft.

I haven't read thru th is entire thread but instead of starting a new one, I have a question on Jason Dart.
I saw a mock today having the Giants drafting him with our 3rd pick. Is there any way he lasts until round 3?

Quote from: LennG on February 19, 2025, 05:12:54 PMI haven't read thru th is entire thread but instead of starting a new one, I have a question on Jason Dart.
I saw a mock today having the Giants drafting him with our 3rd pick. Is there any way he lasts until round 3?

It's hard to say with certainty, but it seems probable he goes round one.   Failing that, I don't see him making it out of round two.

Quote from: LennG on February 19, 2025, 05:12:54 PMI haven't read thru th is entire thread but instead of starting a new one, I have a question on Jason Dart.
I saw a mock today having the Giants drafting him with our 3rd pick. Is there any way he lasts until round 3?

I don't think he makes it past the Seahawks at 18 or the Steelers at 21.

Lot of smoke with Sheddur and the Browns the past two days and I can only hope that is the case and it's not bait for the Giants to do something foolish like move up.

It's smart that teams consider players in this year's draft and compare them to last year's draft as well as evaluate players in the 2026 Draft so they can gauge how good this crop of prospects are and whether they should wait another year to select for maybe a position.

When I look at the so-called top three QBs in the 2025 Draft, none of them look close to the 2024 crop of 6.  I thought all six could be starting NFL QBs.  I simply don't see that with Ward, Sanders, and Dart.  It's why I advocate a young bridge like Fields who could develop up (sort of the way Geno Smith did with the Seahawks from his earlier days in the NFL).

Our trenches need the most work along with a CB and another WR.  If we improve our trenches and secondary drafting Carter, Graham, Hunter or Johnson in round 1 then add an OL in round 2 that would go a long way for someone like Fields or a rookie in 2026.  Build the team with good players around a future QB rather than add a marginal QB just we need a QB.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 20, 2025, 06:13:38 AMIt's smart that teams consider players in this year's draft and compare them to last year's draft as well as evaluate players in the 2026 Draft so they can gauge how good this crop of prospects are and whether they should wait another year to select for maybe a position.

When I look at the so-called top three QBs in the 2025 Draft, none of them look close to the 2024 crop of 6.  I thought all six could be starting NFL QBs.  I simply don't see that with Ward, Sanders, and Dart.  It's why I advocate a young bridge like Fields who could develop up (sort of the way Geno Smith did with the Seahawks from his earlier days in the NFL).

Our trenches need the most work along with a CB and another WR.  If we improve our trenches and secondary drafting Carter, Graham, Hunter or Johnson in round 1 then add an OL in round 2 that would go a long way for someone like Fields or a rookie in 2026.  Build the team with good players around a future QB rather than add a marginal QB just we need a QB.

That's it! Schoen, you are gone. This Philosopher will take your place. And before you start with the common sense team building, find a new coach please.

Quote from: katkavage on February 20, 2025, 07:01:41 AMThat's it! Schoen, you are gone. This Philosopher will take your place. And before you start with the common sense team building, find a new coach please.

Ha Ha Dabs would have been gone under me.  I did not like his interaction with Wink at the end.  At Michigan, Wink has been seamless and without any drama.

https://x.com/GiantsReport1/status/1892043686180974997


Cam Ward telling Sheddur Sanders that he can't believe they gave Sanders an award for accuracy when all he does is throw check downs and screens while Ward goes deep is hilarious.

Supposedly the Jets have been in contact with the Titans for the #1 pick to grab Cam Ward.

Potential trade being floated

#1 Cam Ward

For

Jets' first-round pick (2025), second-round pick (2025), a first-round pick (2026), a second-round pick (2026) and another second-round pick (2027).


Please oh please oh please football gods, let the Titans take Carter, the Browns take Sheddur, and someone offer us something like this for Ward.

https://fanduel.com/research/ranking-the-top-quarterback-prospects-in-the-2025-nfl-draft-by-their-college-stats

Here's parts of the article  I found it absolutely fascinating, and suggest anyone with time go look at the charts and graphs.

Why Statistics Matter in Evaluating NFL Quarterback Prospects

I've got a model that grades quarterback prospects purely based on their statistical profiles coming out of college. Draft capital will always be key, but we don't have that info yet. And, frankly, the model can guide us pretty well even without it.

Of the 13 quarterbacks in this year's playoffs drafted after 2010 (excluding Matthew Stafford), 8 ranked in the 88th percentile or higher of my model among quarterbacks invited to the combine since 2010. This includes Jayden Daniels, who it tabbed as the best quarterback prospect across those 15 seasons entering last year's draft. The guy he replaced at the top -- Hurts -- just won Super Bowl MVP.

The model considers a player's age (on Day 1 of the NFL Draft), experience (number of games with 10-plus pass attempts), and final-year efficiency (their Total QBR and adjusted yards per attempt, or AY/A). In general, you want the youngest, most experienced, and most efficient guy you can get.

Since 2010, 49 quarterbacks have been first-round picks. Of those 49, 14 have finished in the top 10 in Total Net Expected Points (NEP) in one-third of their qualified seasons. Total NEP is numberFire's EPA metric, which factors in expected points added as both a passer and a rusher and deducts expected points lost due to sacks. These 14 guys are the ideal of what you want if you're taking a quarterback early.

This leaves us with 35 other first-rounders. Of that group, seven players haven't yet had three years in the league, so we won't label them as disappointments yet. This trims our group of less successful first-rounders down to 28.

Those 28 -- on average -- were older, less efficient, and less experienced than the hits coming out of college, leading to their being viewed less favorably by the model.

2025 NFL Draft Quarterback Rankings

1. Jaxson Dart, Ole Miss
Age: 21.9 (83rd percentile)

Games: 45 (82nd percentiile)

AY/A: 11.5 (96th percentile)

Total QBR: 86.3 (88th percentile)

Pre-Draft Model Rank: 97th percentile

Top Statistical Comp: Jalen Hurts

You don't often run into a prospect who checks all three key boxes: young, experienced, and efficient.

Jaxson Dart does so emphatically.

Since 2010, only eight players invited to the combine have:

Been younger than 22 on Day 1 of the draft
Had 30-plus games with 10-plus pass attempts
Recorded a final-year Total QBR of at least 80.0
Those eight players are:

Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson
Jalen Hurts
Trevor Lawrence
Deshaun Watson
Jared Goff
Marcus Mariota
Teddy Bridgewater

Half of those guys are on the list of first-round picks who have been top 10 in Total NEP in one-third of their seasons. Another is a second-rounder who -- again -- just won Super Bowl MVP.

Dart will join them this year, clearing both the experience and efficiency benchmarks by a wide margin.

When you blend it all together, Dart winds up being the seventh-ranked quarterback in the history of the model, which currently includes 259 players. Of the players ahead of him, five wound up being top-five picks, and the other was Hurts. So not only have these kinds of players hit at a high rate, but they tend to go high in the draft.

That's worth keeping in mind once more NFL Draft props are posted at FanDuel Sportsbook.

The obvious retort to all of this is that Dart's stats are misleading. He played in a Lane Kiffin offense where Dart used play action on 53.2% of his drop backs, according to PFF. It led to a bunch of open receivers and easy throws, which would juice up his Total QBR and AY/A.

A couple of issues with that.

First, as laid out above, Dart's resume goes beyond his efficiency. Earning starts as a true freshman at a Power 5 school and then starting three years in the SEC -- all at such a young age -- is a huge endorsement of his talent. Coaches wanted him on the field immediately.

Second, Dart is lightyears beyond other Kiffin quarterbacks in the draft.

Only two other times has a quarterback who had Kiffin as his primary playcaller in his final year of college been invited to the NFL combine. Those are Matt Corral (2022) and Matt Barkley (2013). Obviously, neither became a quality NFL player. The gap between them and Dart is quite large.

2. Cam Ward, Miami
Age: 22.9 (57th percentile)

Games: 57 (98th percentiile)

AY/A: 10.5 (90th percentile)

Total QBR: 88.7 (93rd percentile)

Pre-Draft Model Rank: 96th percentile

Top Statistical Comp: Baker Mayfield


3. Will Howard, Ohio State
Age: 23.6 (25th percentile)

Games: 45 (82nd percentiile)

AY/A: 10.1 (86th percentile)

Total QBR: 89.6 (94th percentile)

Pre-Draft Model Rank: 83rd percentile

Top Statistical Comp: Kevin Hogan


4. Shedeur Sanders, Colorado
Age: 23.2 (43rd percentile)

Games: 50 (93rd percentiile)

AY/A: 9.3 (69th percentile)

Total QBR: 75.5 (59th percentile)

Pre-Draft Model Rank: 70th percentile

Top Statistical Comp: Kenny Pickett




All of this backs up what Ed and several others of us that have been high on Dart have been saying for awhile now. Dart breaks the model, of which has been really accurate in deciphering how great a Qb will be in the NFL. It is also high on Ward, but even more alarming is Sheddur Sanders who will be 23 by the draft, the numbers hate Sanders.

https://x.com/BrownSpiderCLE/status/1892303971718414363

https://x.com/BrownSpiderCLE/status/1892303971718414363

Greg (whose opinions I respect immensely) didn't seem all that excited by Dart

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 20, 2025, 01:08:20 PMGreg (whose opinions I respect immensely) didn't seem all that excited by Dart

He's hit or miss, I mean I've seen him be spot on with Jordan Love, and way off with Carson Wentz. I think all scouts have huge hits and big misses. With these new offenses and the way the game is changing I wonder how that changes evaluations and the old heads scouting.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 20, 2025, 02:37:42 PMHe's hit or miss, I mean I've seen him be spot on with Jordan Love, and way off with Carson Wentz. I think all scouts have huge hits and big misses. With these new offenses and the way the game is changing I wonder how that changes evaluations and the old heads scouting.

Jess,

When it comes to QBs, I have seen Greg hit on far more than he misses.   

https://x.com/FirstTake/status/1892259118271922182

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 20, 2025, 02:37:42 PMHe's hit or miss, I mean I've seen him be spot on with Jordan Love, and way off with Carson Wentz. I think all scouts have huge hits and big misses. With these new offenses and the way the game is changing I wonder how that changes evaluations and the old heads scouting.

I will add this: I am waiting to hear what Greg has to say next week on Ross Tucker's show, as less than a minute didn't really give Greg the time to provide a proper report on Dart.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 20, 2025, 02:45:38 PMJess,

When it comes to QBs, I have seen Greg hit on far more than he misses.   

No I agree, I was trying to make a broader statement in general as to how things might change for scouts going forward as the game evolves for some of these older scouts.

Just for an example Belichick was an elite gm and talent evaluator. then out of nowhere he had 6 horrible drafts in a row as if the game somewhat passed him by to an extent. I wonder if the same can be said for scouts, as they seem to get significantly younger. You rarely see that many older scouts these days, but maybe I am wrong.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 20, 2025, 02:37:42 PMHe's hit or miss, I mean I've seen him be spot on with Jordan Love, and way off with Carson Wentz. I think all scouts have huge hits and big misses. With these new offenses and the way the game is changing I wonder how that changes evaluations and the old heads scouting.

He didn't miss on Wentz who had four excellent seasons to start his career. It's impossible to measure a players psyche. Wentz never recovered mentally from his backup winning the Super Bowl and having a statue erected outside the stadium. The fans in Philly turned on him shortly thereafter.

My biggest apprehension with Dart has nothing to do with Dart himself which is somewhat unfair. Kiffin is a quarterback whisperer who made Matt Corral look like a bonafkde stud even though he was a chump. How much of Dart's success is on him, versus throwing to wide open receivers. He has the tools, and IMHO he's either going to be an epic steal or a colossal bust. I don't see much in between for him.

Frankly he the type of quarterback we should have drafted two years from the end of Eli's career. It would have given us a chance to figure out what he is before needing to count on him.

If I am reading this correctly. Saunders would be the 8th best QB in last year's draft? Ward would be tied with being the 5th/6th best? Tied with Nix?


"When you look at this group compared to last year, I had Cam Ward with the same grade as (Broncos quarterback) Bo Nix, so that would put him behind the top four for me, so he would be in the fifth range," Jeremiah said.

"(Falcons quarterback) Michael Penix I had just slightly ahead of Shedeur, so Shedeur would be behind (Bears quarterback) Caleb (Williams), (Patriots quarterback) Drake (Maye), (Commanders quarterback) Jayden (Daniels), (Vikings quarterback J.J.) McCarthy, Nix, and Penix. 

"Then I would have Shedeur right behind that group," Jeremiah added.



https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/nfl-draft-analyst-weighs-in-on-best-quarterback-fit-for-giants/ar-AA1ztEmO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=NMTS&cvid=c895241256694fcb89a443097d040973&ei=9

Quote from: madbadger on February 20, 2025, 07:11:45 PMHe didn't miss on Wentz who had four excellent seasons to start his career. It's impossible to measure a players psyche. Wentz never recovered mentally from his backup winning the Super Bowl and having a statue erected outside the stadium. The fans in Philly turned on him shortly thereafter.

My biggest apprehension with Dart has nothing to do with Dart himself which is somewhat unfair. Kiffin is a quarterback whisperer who made Matt Corral look like a bonafkde stud even though he was a chump. How much of Dart's success is on him, versus throwing to wide open receivers. He has the tools, and IMHO he's either going to be an epic steal or a colossal bust. I don't see much in between for him.

Frankly he the type of quarterback we should have drafted two years from the end of Eli's career. It would have given us a chance to figure out what he is before needing to count on him.

I agree with this view.  My only caveat is I'd call Lane more of an Offensive Whisperer rather than a QB Whisperer given that his QBs have not fared well afterward.

https://x.com/FoxworthShow/status/1892913525929943368

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 20, 2025, 11:43:33 AMhttps://fanduel.com/research/ranking-the-top-quarterback-prospects-in-the-2025-nfl-draft-by-their-college-stats

Here's parts of the article  I found it absolutely fascinating, and suggest anyone with time go look at the charts and graphs.

....

Based on that, Dart would have to be considered a prospect in the Williams/Daniels/Maye tier - too bad we draft #3.

https://x.com/NFLRookieWatxh/status/1893055677850939735

https://x.com/rapsheet/status/1893763375269548092?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 23, 2025, 03:51:09 PMhttps://x.com/rapsheet/status/1893763375269548092?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

All his actions speak of Buyer Beware.

Giants legend Phil Simms makes feelings known on Cam Ward as rumors intensify ahead of 2025 NFL Draft

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/news-giants-legend-phil-simms-makes-feelings-known-cam-ward-rumors-intensify-ahead-2025-nfl-draft

Shedeur Sanders goes luxury car shopping in Las Vegas amid NFL Draft buzz

Shedeur Sanders is making headlines again, but this time, it's not for his skills on the field. The Colorado Buffaloes star quarterback was spotted in Las Vegas this week, browsing high-end vehicles at Vegas Auto Gallery.

With the 2025 NFL Draft just two months away, Sanders' trip to Sin City has only fueled speculation about his future as a potential top-five pick. Joined by his older brother, Bucky, who documented the outing for Well Off Media, Shedeur set his sights on a Rolls-Royce Phantom with an Exterior Black Diamond finish and an Interior Grace White w/Peony Red Accents.

The luxury sedan comes with a hefty $495,000 price tag, but Sanders noted he would close the deal if it came in an earth green color—adding his personal touch to an already extravagant ride.

https://www.si.com/college/colorado/football/colorado-qb-shedeur-sanders-won-t-throw-at-2025-nfl-combine

https://thesportsrush.com/nfl-news-qb-guru-backs-syracuse-oranges-kyle-mccord-as-the-biggest-surprise-of-the-2025-draft-class-this-dudes-going-to-start-for-a-long-time-in-the-league/

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 23, 2025, 08:40:56 PMhttps://thesportsrush.com/nfl-news-qb-guru-backs-syracuse-oranges-kyle-mccord-as-the-biggest-surprise-of-the-2025-draft-class-this-dudes-going-to-start-for-a-long-time-in-the-league/

I am intrigued by McCord.  Although he fails to meet many of Parcell's rules, including being a 3 year starter, winning 23 games, and starting 30 games.  I think McCord could be a find, but I think he's a bigger risk than most.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 23, 2025, 08:31:54 PMAll his actions speak of Buyer Beware.

I am mindful that Daniels and Caleb didn't work out last year.  However, I think when one is a consensus top pick, you have a different situation than you have when you are a QB who might be drafted high, but haven't proven that you should be.

Sanders drops 4 spots to 15 in Jeremiah's 2nd top 50.  He used the term "undersized," which I just started to hear being said of him


https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2025-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-2-0?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cfb

https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1894057967135105339

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 11:42:56 AMhttps://x.com/RapSheet/status/1894057967135105339

I would be STUNNED if Ward does a single drill.  Makes sense for Dart to do stuff though as he's trying to catch the other guys at the top of the draft and potentially move ahead of them. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on February 24, 2025, 01:05:23 PMI would be STUNNED if Ward does a single drill.  Makes sense for Dart to do stuff though as he's trying to catch the other guys at the top of the draft and potentially move ahead of them. 

Sanders and Ward are acting like they are elite QB prospects.  I don't see either of them in that category.  The two of them should be putting in the work, especially Sanders, who ended the season on a sour note.

This sort of reminds me of CJ Stroud (who participated in the Combine) and Bryce Young (who did not). 

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 01:09:54 PMSanders and Ward are acting like they are elite QB prospects.  I don't see either of them in that category.  The two of them should be putting in the work, especially Sanders, who ended the season on a sour note.

This sort of reminds me of CJ Stroud (who participated in the Combine) and Bryce Young (who did not). 

Absolutely. Especially Cam Ward who can wow with his outside the numbers throws. I can understand avoiding contact or drills that would potentially cause injury, but working with League Coaches and Players and demonstrating what sets you apart is important. Sanders also passed on the Senior Bowl practices. He's already dropping like a rock. When a RB and a TE out slot a QB, it speaks volumes.   

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 01:09:54 PMSanders and Ward are acting like they are elite QB prospects.  I don't see either of them in that category.  The two of them should be putting in the work, especially Sanders, who ended the season on a sour note.

This sort of reminds me of CJ Stroud (who participated in the Combine) and Bryce Young (who did not). 

They are acting like it because they are going to be taken as elite prospects.  You're making their point for them.  They need to limit anything that can expose them of being not as good as they are currently projected to go.  Nothing they do is going to increase their draft stock.  Both guys are going in the top 5.  But if they do something to scare teams away...that's another story. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 01:09:54 PMSanders and Ward are acting like they are elite QB prospects.  I don't see either of them in that category.  The two of them should be putting in the work, especially Sanders, who ended the season on a sour note.

This sort of reminds me of CJ Stroud (who participated in the Combine) and Bryce Young (who did not). 

They are acting like it because they are going to be taken as elite prospects.  You're making their point for them.  They need to limit anything that can expose them of being not as good as they are currently projected to go.  Nothing they do is going to increase their draft stock.  Both guys are going in the top 5.  But if they do something to scare teams away...that's another story. 

Dart isn't likely going in the top 10...yet.  He can actually increase his stock by crushing all the drills at the combine.  So that's why it makes sense for him.  And Milroe for that matter. 

Quote from: Gmo11 on February 24, 2025, 02:12:58 PMThey are acting like it because they are going to be taken as elite prospects.  You're making their point for them.  They need to limit anything that can expose them of being not as good as they are currently projected to go.  Nothing they do is going to increase their draft stock.  Both guys are going in the top 5.  But if they do something to scare teams away...that's another story. 

Dart isn't likely going in the top 10...yet.  He can actually increase his stock by crushing all the drills at the combine.  So that's why it makes sense for him.  And Milroe for that matter. 

I think we are addressing the issue from different vantage points.  I am addressing it from a team perspective while you are addressing it from a player's perspective

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 02:15:19 PMI think we are addressing the issue from different vantage points.  I am addressing it from a team perspective while you are addressing it from a player's perspective

I believe you're right.  Teams would for sure want them to do as much stuff as possible as they attempt to evaluate a pick that they will likely be tied to for good or bad for the rest of their careers.  But for the player, there's little to no incentive to do any of that. 

https://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1893881174642344081?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 07:51:11 AMI am intrigued by McCord.  Although he fails to meet many of Parcell's rules, including being a 3 year starter, winning 23 games, and starting 30 games.  I think McCord could be a find, but I think he's a bigger risk than most.

Parcells rules are outdated. The number of guys that fit all three requirements are minuscule. Using his rules we would have passed on Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2025, 06:11:30 PMhttps://x.com/nflrookiewatxh/status/1893881174642344081?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

In that video, I see a sidearm in which DL wont even have to jump.

Cam Ward has a bit of a wildcard factor to him that I find enticing. I don't get that at all with Shedeur. His ceiling feels very defined and, I'm afraid, not very high.

With very few cant blue chip type prospects, it would baffle me that the Giants would select what appears to be mediocre players at 3 just because they need a QB.

At 3 take Hunter, Carter or Graham.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 25, 2025, 06:13:22 AMWith very few cant blue chip type prospects, it would baffle me that the Giants would select what appears to be mediocre players at 3 just because they need a QB.

At 3 take Hunter, Carter or Graham.

You keep forgetting the situation they are in. That the owner put them in. He demanded a QB. If the owner had a clue, he would have fired the GM and coach, hired a new GM and coach who then would be given the time to rebuild the team and would not be forced to take a QB. But no, either they take Sanders or Ward or they commit the biggest blunder in Giant history and pay big bucks to sign a 37 year old QB to a bad team. I"d rather them take the rookie QB. Either way, they are lost for the immediate future.

Quote from: katkavage on February 25, 2025, 07:08:42 AMYou keep forgetting the situation they are in. That the owner put them in. He demanded a QB. If the owner had a clue, he would have fired the GM and coach, hired a new GM and coach who then would be given the time to rebuild the team and would not be forced to take a QB. But no, either they take Sanders or Ward or they commit the biggest blunder in Giant history and pay big bucks to sign a 37 year old QB to a bad team. I"d rather them take the rookie QB. Either way, they are lost for the immediate future.

What about continuing to build the team this year in a weak QB class and drafting one in 2026? 

Quote from: Philosophers on February 25, 2025, 07:25:37 AMWhat about continuing to build the team this year in a weak QB class and drafting one in 2026? 

That's exactly what a new GM and head coach would do knowing they have time. The dynamic duo Mara retained can't survive a 3-5 win season. Who in their right mind would keep them after three real bad losing seasons and draft a rookie QB in 2026 who, unless he is Jayden Daniels or C.J Stroud, will not deliver results in his first year. The Giants are doing things ass backwards, but that's on the owner.

Multiple league insiders are convinced the Giants have their sights on Sanders, but that would not necessarily keep the team from targeting a more experienced option at the position. The Giants had Super Bowl-winning quarterback Kurt Warner as their starter when they drafted Eli Manning with the No. 1 pick.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/43953938/giants-qb-decision-front-burner-nfl-combine

If Tony Pauline's sources are correct, the only chance the Giants have at Ward is to trade up with the Ttans

(https://i.imgur.com/kpxNZeo.png)

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/news-insider-notes-nfl-combine-latest-shedeur-sanders-cam-ward-draft-stock-browns-plan

Quote from: madbadger on February 24, 2025, 07:36:12 PMParcells rules are outdated. The number of guys that fit all three requirements are minuscule. Using his rules we would have passed on Pat Mahomes and Josh Allen.

and @kingm56

Things are not as simple as you believe


For Parcells to consider drafting a quarterback they must meet the following seven criteria;

Be a three-year starter
Be a senior in college
Graduate from college
Start 30 games
Win 23 games
Post a 2:1 Touchdown to interception ratio
Complete at least 60% of passes thrown

Hits

Matthew Stafford
Drew Brees
Andrew Luck
Lamar Jackson
Kirk Cousins
Derek Carr
Brock Purdy


Misses

Kyler Murray
Cam Newton
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Pat Mahomes
Josh Allen

Avoiding Busts

This, however, is where I think the focus should be. The system would have helped us avoid these significant bust picks at the most important position in a Superflex league (note next to the names are how many of the criteria they hit).

Mitch Trubisky (2/7)
Trey Lance (2/7)
Zach Wilson (3/7)
Justin Fields (2/7)
Sam Darnold (2/7

https://www.kingfantasysports.com/dynasty-qbs-using-bill-parcells-rules/

Phil John
@PoshplaysFF
2025 QB Prospects vs. Parcells' Rules

Here's how the 2025 QB class stack up AFTER the 24 season heading into the April's draft...

Cam Ward (Miami) – 7/7

Shedeur Sanders (Colorado) – 6/7 didn't graduate

Jaxson Dart (Ole Miss) – 6/7 took wins to 29 and started his third season. Couldn't find confirmation of graduation.

Jalen Milroe (Alabama) – 5/7 2 year starter who started 28 games

Quinn Ewers (Texas) – 5/7 Three year starter, 36 career starts, 27 wins. Couldn't find confirmation of graduation

https://x.com/PoshplaysFF/status/1893045599831834772

Always give me the gamer, the kid that doesn't care and just wants to compete. Whether it's the bowl game, senior bowl, or combine, give me the kid willing to make mistakes and grow.

There is a very real chance teams fall in love with Dart, the gamer in him, the arm, the 40 etc at the combine and he surpasses Sanders as a lot of scouts have started to sour on Sanders.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 25, 2025, 09:53:01 AMAlways give me the gamer, the kid that doesn't care and just wants to compete. Whether it's the bowl game, senior bowl, or combine, give me the kid willing to make mistakes and grow.

There is a very real chance teams fall in love with Dart, the gamer in him, the arm, the 40 etc at the combine and he surpasses Sanders as a lot of scouts have started to sour on Sanders.

He's definitely growing on me.  I've still got Ward at the top but Sanders/Dart relatively even for me.  It'll kinda depend on the team picking as to which you prefer.  Which player fits which scheme better.  All things considered I think Dart is a better fit but also a bigger risk if it doesn't work out.

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1891536816882229588

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 25, 2025, 11:35:57 AMhttps://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1891536816882229588

I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment. I'll take our very young skill position group of Nabers, Robinson, Tracey and Johnson over theirs of Bowers, Meyers, Tucker and Mattison. If, and admittedly it's a big if, Thomas can stay healthy we are one, maybe two players away from having a good offensive line to protect whoever our quarterback is next year.

Quote from: madbadger on February 25, 2025, 12:24:04 PMI'm not sure I agree with that sentiment. I'll take our very young skill position group of Nabers, Robinson, Tracey and Johnson over theirs of Bowers, Meyers, Tucker and Mattison. If, and admittedly it's a big if, Thomas can stay healthy we are one, maybe two players away from having a good offensive line to protect whoever our quarterback is next year.

Here is the PFF for the Giants and Raiders offenses

(https://i.imgur.com/EAugvur.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/rvRCTTB.png)

https://x.com/RossTuckerPod/status/1894369477879284032

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1894398943225667871

Our best OL player with a PFF is only like 74 and that's a player who is always hurt.  Rest are in 60s and below.  That's hardly a foundational OL to build around.  I call that a tear down and rebuild.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 26, 2025, 09:10:20 AMhttps://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1894398943225667871

It's a great rep.  Just one rep but a great rep.  That's the type of play where over the last 5 years more often than not we'd see a QB either take a sack or just throw the deep route since that was the first read regardless of what the safety was doing.  That's a simple play for an NFL QB to make, but the Giants haven't had an NFL QB in a very long time. 

I still don't think people realize how much it's going to change if they can find a guy that can simply just do THAT consistently.  Let alone the crazy superstar plays, tight window throws, manipulating defenders, all of that.  That's the dream. But just to not have complete incompetency at the QB position is going to make this offense a lot more effective and fun even before you factor in free agents and other draft picks.

It is no secret that the New York Giants enter the offseason with a huge need at the quarterback position. After cutting Daniel Jones, New York is desperate for a starting quarterback, and with the third-overall pick in the 2025 NFL Draft, the Giants could have a shot at landing one of the top quarterback prospects. Miami's Cam Ward and Colorado's Shedeur Sanders are projected to be high first-round picks, and both have been linked to New York. After speaking with team sources, the early feeling is the Giants prefer Ward over Sanders but say they are not in love with either of them.

 

With Ward, they feel he has more mobility, more arm strength, and more upside. They feel you will have to coach out the gunslinger mentality a little bit, but that gunslinger and ad-lib ability are his special qualities. With Sanders, they like the accuracy and anticipation but have concerns about his lack of running ability for the NFL, holding the ball too long, and potentially having to deal with distraction from his father and the focus on building a brand.

 
Sources say the Giants are not smitten with either prospect, but if they don't fill the quarterback need in free agency, they will probably draft one of these two quarterbacks. Both received starter grades, and they feel they have to take a shot at getting a long-term solution for the position.


https://walterfootball.com/giants-prefer-ward-over-sanders.php

The 2025 NFL Draft is known not to be a strong year for quarterback talent, and many scouts are not high on either Miami's Cam Ward or Colorado's Sheduer Sanders. Still, the consensus belief is they will go early in the first round as there are a lot of franchises that are desperate for a young franchise quarterback. After those two are off the board, the consensus third quarterback to get selected is Ole Miss' Jaxson Dart. Some in the media, including ESPN, have pushed Dart into the first round of mock drafts. However, after surveying ten teams, nine of them had Dart as a day two pick at best. Only one source, an AFC general manager, thought Dart would go in the first round.

 

"Hell no," texted an NFC area scout. "I don't see it personally. His size and arm are ordinary. He's a decent athlete, but he's not scaring anybody in the NFL into spying him, or planning outside of structure. That offensive system specifically has yet to generate a high end NFL QB. I get he's some PFF darling, but so are all the quarterbacks coming out of that scheme in general, and none turn out to be top-half NFL starters, let alone quality backups."

 
In 2024, Dart completed 69 percent of his passes for 4,279 yards with 29 touchdowns and six interceptions. The majority of the team evaluators had Dart as a third-rounder but said he could go in the second round. Teams like his instincts, toughness, and competitiveness. However, they feel he lacks pocket presence, can be reckless with the ball, and does not have special physical talent. Some compared him to Raiders quarterback Gardner Minshew. One NFC director of player personnel said their team had him lower heading into the combine. He texted, "We had him as a fourth-rounder, maybe a third by the draft."

Some of the sources think that projections of Dart in the first round are driven by the media and/or agent-driven. One AFC director of college scouting said in response to Dart being a legit first-round prospect, "No. Dart has some ability, but his epic meltdown against Florida says a lot about his mental toughness."

https://walterfootball.com/vast-majority-of-teams-see-dart-as-day-2-prospect.php

Shedeur Sanders as of 2 days ago on PFF BIG BOARD 2025 is ranked 45th best player. Cam Ward is 20th and no other QB makes their top 50




https://www.pff.com/draft/big-board?season=2025

The best case scenario here is we sign someone like Fields have him compete with a journeyman and win the starting spot, and then build out the rest of the roster with younger FA's and draft picks, with either Hunter or Carter (my preference is Hunter) at #3 or trade down and stay in the top 10 and load up on picks.

I honestly believe if they do anything different (like spend a fortune on a veteran QB) we're headed back to the '70's and that's not a good thing.

To add a little humor to the thread this has been #1 trending in the US on Twitter.

https://youtu.be/blNaPIJrAvg?si=2Wdi_bv396k6I91h

Jaxson Dart survived 3 years there and still came out a leader, give him the bag now.

Also I went to ole miss and spend time there still, this is just another Wednesday in Oxford.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 26, 2025, 09:52:28 AMOur best OL player with a PFF is only like 74 and that's a player who is always hurt.  Rest are in 60s and below.  That's hardly a foundational OL to build around.  I call that a tear down and rebuild.

If you just go by that clear weakness, the present management has failed big time; more importantly, it wasn't for lack of trying either, as they spent big capital and team resources on the position. ABSOLUTE FAILURE. A ROOKIE QB, even with high potential, will be another DJ and get ruined.

Quote from: GloryDays on February 26, 2025, 09:59:55 PMIf you just go by that clear weakness, the present management has failed big time; more importantly, it wasn't for lack of trying either, as they spent big capital and team resources on the position. ABSOLUTE FAILURE. A ROOKIE QB, even with high potential, will be another DJ and get ruined.

This is precisely why all the talk about a QB is an exercise in futility in the upcoming draft.

If they do not fix the Offensive Line, which means build enough depth to withstand the usual injuries, and not drop off significantly in performance, no quarterback they might choose will matter in the final analysis. That has to be the priority or they may as well not even show up to pick anyone and let John and Steve throw darts at their board blindfolded. At least they'll have a more interesting draft that way.

You know the Strategic Imperative I keep harping, over and over.

Peace!

Having heard Cossell break down all the top QB prospects, one question pops up in my mind.

What is the difference between McCord and Sanders?   Why is one in talk of being a top 5 pick and the other being talked as a day two prospect?  They seem to have very similar talent sets and production (at least last year).  I appreciate that Sanders had done it for more seasons, but McCord doesn't come with the Sanders baggage.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 27, 2025, 09:37:49 AMHaving heard Cossell break down all the top QB prospects, one question pops up in my mind.

What is the difference between McCord and Sanders?  Why is one in talk of being a top 5 pick and the other being talked as a day two prospect?  They seem to have very similar talent sets and production (at least last year).  I appreciate that Sanders had done it for more seasons, but McCord doesn't come with the Sanders baggage.

And who faced tougher competition with less talent? Two years pretty close.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 26, 2025, 08:47:38 PMTo add a little humor to the thread this has been #1 trending in the US on Twitter.

https://youtu.be/blNaPIJrAvg?si=2Wdi_bv396k6I91h

Jaxson Dart survived 3 years there and still came out a leader, give him the bag now.

Also I went to ole miss and spend time there still, this is just another Wednesday in Oxford.

Hilarious.  Well he swung for the fences on that one.

https://x.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1895463398315553103

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2025, 08:32:52 AMhttps://x.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1895463398315553103

So now we know he can spit unrelenting BS to the media while at the podium.  That is one skill a starting QB is going to need.  Perhaps not the most important...but it's on the list.

https://x.com/NFLFrascella/status/1895476562205774283

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2025, 11:36:40 AMhttps://x.com/NFLFrascella/status/1895476562205774283

What a scary F-ing thought.

https://x.com/Ourlads_Sy/status/1875351546264772657

https://x.com/smartfootbali/status/1895960124159565893?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

https://x.com/nfl/status/1895957600547570061?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Thought Dart and Ewers looked the best (so did the announcers it seemed). Wasn't impressed with Howard (accuray) or Gabriel (arm strength). But then again  what do I know

https://x.com/jordan_reid/status/1895963949314818544?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Dart was the best of that group, although not a huge standout, but I was somewhat disappointed in the group at certain route segments. I think Howard is a better QB than he showed. Gabriel proved he has the arm to me. Ewers had a decent showing. I look for perfection in drop, timing, touch and layering and placement. So my bar is very high. I was disappointed that McCord was not a part of that group throwing.

https://x.com/NFL_DF/status/1895963611597804017

https://x.com/chasedaniel/status/1895977684955807910?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

I have to say that it's a great bunch of kids and Shedeur is a loveable character.

So far this second group looks pretty good. Leonard, McCord and Shough, all good timing and placement. Milroe has the ball sail on a few.

Both groups had trouble with the fade passes. Riley had the best day of the second group but Shough impressed me and both Milroe and McCord had a good day. Overall better than the first Group. Leonard helped his cause the most imo, then Shough. I expected Dart to do well.

There was a discussion over how do you find the time to develop a QB drafted day 2-3? I think a lot of good kids fall through the cracks because they are on a team that doesn't help them. Milroe would be in danger of that like Richardson has experienced. He needed to sit at least a year and have a coach work with him.

Stacey Dales deserves a shout out for the terrific job she did with interviews. A true professional. Yes, I was annoyed at times when it took away from the action but I like the questions and her follow up.

https://x.com/MONTECRI5TO/status/1895973820080779295

https://x.com/LRiddickESPN/status/1895957267109069220

https://x.com/SmartfootbalI/status/1895961923885445516

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-kosko-why-jaxson-dart-should-be-a-top-15-player-in-the-2025-nfl-draft-class


Why Dart should be a top 15 prospect per PFF. Echoes a lot of what a few of us have been saying for a month + now.

Has Jaxson Dart shown enough to elevate himself to be the #2 QB in this Draft, passing Sanders?

Sanders was playing with a bad Offensive Line, poor creative play calling with no motion and little talent except for Hunter. It caused him to bail the pocket early, and miss opportunities. Still, he didn't participate in the Senior Bowl or the Combine and quite frankly, he can't explain that away to me. He had to be afraid of competing. He has velocity issues and although he's very accurate, he left a lot on the field taking too many sacks.

I do believe Dart should be considered #2. Furthermore he drives the ball downfield, while Ward is content with quick outs and passes outside the numbers.

I still think Ward goes off first and he's separated himself from the rest because of his arm and release. He's prone to wtf moments but he's the total package with a high ceiling.

I think Ward and Dart fit Daboll's system very well and can be starting by mid season.

I think the league sees Ward as a top three pick. Sanders as a mid first round pick and perhaps Dart has moved near him or slightly ahead.

Since QBs are a premium, I can see Howard and Leonard sneaking into the first round or early second.

Thoughts?

I haven't watched anything from the combine, and I also watched very little college football this past season. But one thing I've learned over the years Ed, when you talk draft-eligible college QB's I sit up and listen.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 01, 2025, 10:53:03 PMHas Jaxson Dart shown enough to elevate himself to be the #2 QB in this Draft, passing Sanders?

Sanders was playing with a bad Offensive Line, poor creative play calling with no motion and little talent except for Hunter. It caused him to bail the pocket early, and miss opportunities. Still, he didn't participate in the Senior Bowl or the Combine and quite frankly, he can't explain that away to me. He had to be afraid of competing. He has velocity issues and although he's very accurate, he left a lot on the field taking too many sacks.

I do believe Dart should be considered #2. Furthermore he drives the ball downfield, while Ward is content with quick outs and passes outside the numbers.

I still think Ward goes off first and he's separated himself from the rest because of his arm and release. He's prone to wtf moments but he's the total package with a high ceiling.

I think Ward and Dart fit Daboll's system very well and can be starting by mid season.

I think the league sees Ward as a top three pick. Sanders as a mid first round pick and perhaps Dart has moved near him or slightly ahead.

Since QBs are a premium, I can see Howard and Leonard sneaking into the first round or early second.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are Ward is a clear 1 now. I think Sanders goes is "1A" and still goes in Rd 1, but has a lot of questions as a #1 pick. I think Ewers and Slough helped themselves today, and Dart maintained his status. I can see all 3 going on Day 2. I also thought that McCord and Gabriel reinforced the issues with arm strength that scouts thought going into the combine, and Howard and Milroe really hurt themselves with accuracy issues.

Lindsay Rhodes
@lindsay_rhodes
As I leave Indy 👋🏼...a thread of my takeaways:

1. Cam Ward is more highly regarded than I previously thought.

People I talked to, rattled off- comfortably- quite a few things they liked about him as a prospect.

I wouldn't be surprised if he went #1.

2. I think the gap between Ward and Shedeur Sanders is bigger than it's being described.

A "chasm",
@mikerenner_
 called it. (He thinks Sanders is closer to Dart than Ward.)

I didn't talk to anyone who had him as their QB1.

And *everyone* I talked to about why he might go in the top 5 mentioned "QB needy teams" as the top reason.

That feels like poor process to me. Risky.

I wouldn't be surprised if he went later than expected.

Here are QB throwing grades By Chris Trapasso


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2025-nfl-combine-grades-for-top-qb-prospects-plus-winners-and-losers-from-on-field-workouts/

https://x.com/LRiddickESPN/status/1896022856208925129

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 01, 2025, 10:53:03 PMHas Jaxson Dart shown enough to elevate himself to be the #2 QB in this Draft, passing Sanders?

Sanders was playing with a bad Offensive Line, poor creative play calling with no motion and little talent except for Hunter. It caused him to bail the pocket early, and miss opportunities. Still, he didn't participate in the Senior Bowl or the Combine and quite frankly, he can't explain that away to me. He had to be afraid of competing. He has velocity issues and although he's very accurate, he left a lot on the field taking too many sacks.

I do believe Dart should be considered #2. Furthermore he drives the ball downfield, while Ward is content with quick outs and passes outside the numbers.

I still think Ward goes off first and he's separated himself from the rest because of his arm and release. He's prone to wtf moments but he's the total package with a high ceiling.

I think Ward and Dart fit Daboll's system very well and can be starting by mid season.

I think the league sees Ward as a top three pick. Sanders as a mid first round pick and perhaps Dart has moved near him or slightly ahead.

Since QBs are a premium, I can see Howard and Leonard sneaking into the first round or early second.

Thoughts?

I think Ward is the clear-cut number one QB.  If the Giants want him they will need to trade up to the top pick.

If the Giants want Dart, they will have to take him at 3.

I have no use for Sanders.  I think the reason he didn't throw at the Combine is his lack of arm strength would have become readily apparent.

I would be tempted to take Shough with the 2nd pick

Howard intrigues me as a 3rd rounder who has maybe starter potential, (perhaps I put Leonard along with him)

I think the rest will prove to be backups.

At this point, I see a consensus developing that Ward may go top 3, Sanders top 15 and Dart maybe in round 2.  His stats have baked in them too many primary read throws which is not how the NFL defense is set up as it is too tight a coverage.  I think folks think his read progression is not far enough along. 

Quote from: VanPelt on March 01, 2025, 11:17:13 PMMy thoughts are Ward is a clear 1 now. I think Sanders goes is "1A" and still goes in Rd 1, but has a lot of questions as a #1 pick. I think Ewers and Slough helped themselves today, and Dart maintained his status. I can see all 3 going on Day 2. I also thought that McCord and Gabriel reinforced the issues with arm strength that scouts thought going into the combine, and Howard and Milroe really hurt themselves with accuracy issues.

I forgot about Ewers. I tend to dismiss him but he has support out there and he has a strong arm.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 02, 2025, 08:50:32 AMI forgot about Ewers. I tend to dismiss him but he has support out there and he has a strong arm.

Ewers interests me a little bit. I can't say I have any sort of strong conviction on him but there are things about his game I like.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2025, 08:43:49 AMI think Ward is the clear-cut number one QB.  If the Giants want him they will need to trade up to the top pick.

If the Giants want Dart, they will have to take him at 3.

I have no use for Sanders.  I think the reason he didn't throw at the Combine is his lack of arm strength would have become readily apparent.

I would be tempted to take Shough with the 2nd pick

Howard intrigues me as a 3rd rounder who has maybe starter potential, (perhaps I put Leonard along with him)

I think the rest will prove to be backups.

Sanders would have been a good fit for Denver. He's a system QB. His supporting cast was crap. Especially his Oline and that Offensive playbook. Leonard and Shough impressed me. Although Leonard takes me back to his failures on the field in games and I don't know Shough at all.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 02, 2025, 08:56:35 AMEwers interests me a little bit. I can't say I have any sort of strong conviction on him but there are things about his game I like.

He takes me back to his game day failures too.

Leonard is a big kid who moves incredibly well for his size (think Josh Allen) but the arm talent is really lacking. I watched every ND game this year but maybe one. He brings plenty to the table but he'd give fans fits with his ability to make plays with his arm. I'd could see him in something of a Taysom Hill type role perhaps but not an every down QB.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 02, 2025, 08:57:21 AMSanders would have been a good fit for Denver. He's a system QB. His supporting cast was crap. Especially his Oline and that Offensive playbook. Leonard and Shough impressed me. Although Leonard takes me back to his failures on the field in games and I don't know Shough at all.

I heard an interview with Schough, very impressive young man.  He has 4 degrees.  His injuries concern me, the age less so.  If the Giants want to take a chance on a QB this draft with an eye towards next year if it doesn't work out, I could think of worse ideas than taking Schough in round 2.

Nice discourse on all the QBs. Barring a trade back, the Giants will take either Ward or Sanders.

Quote from: katkavage on March 02, 2025, 09:03:48 AMNice discourse on all the QBs. Barring a trade back, the Giants will take either Ward or Sanders.

I'm not sold on the Giants' interest in Sanders.  We saw lots of footage and reports that the Giants were at Colorado, but that came from the Sanders' camp, not NYG.   From what I understand, the Giants spent as much time at Miami, but it just wasn't plastered all over social media.  I can't see the Giants drafting the son of Prime Time and a QB who has his own podcast.  That's beyond the fact that I suspect Sanders' ceiling is low level starter high end backup.

https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1896200851548672033

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2025, 09:08:11 AMI'm not sold on the Giants' interest in Sanders.  We saw lots of footage and reports that the Giants were at Colorado, but that came from the Sanders' camp, not NYG.   From what I understand, the Giants spent as much time at Miami, but it just wasn't plastered all over social media.  I can't see the Giants drafting the son of Prime Time and a QB who has his own podcast.  That's beyond the fact that I suspect Sanders' ceiling is low level starter high end backup.

Could be. All we know for sure is that the Giants GM has been ordered to find a difference make QB and win in 2025 or he is gone.

Quote from: Philosophers on March 02, 2025, 08:45:57 AMAt this point, I see a consensus developing that Ward may go top 3, Sanders top 15 and Dart maybe in round 2.  His stats have baked in them too many primary read throws which is not how the NFL defense is set up as it is too tight a coverage.  I think folks think his read progression is not far enough along. 

I know you're right. I just think the demand for a QB may drive him up. Here is the reality of drafting Dart.

https://youtu.be/9tmEM4efbRs?si=p8EkqYFk52zQ2ntq

I think the System Dart was in is just a weak excuse to not do a deep dive on him, same with the Corral comparison, and kiffin despite turning a safety into a 2× national champion can't develop NFL Qb talent.

The fact is that 95% of college Qbs run a system with 1 or 2 primary reads. Ohio St couldn't ever have a successful NFL QB until Stroud happened. Jayden Daniels ran basically the same offense as Dart with slight variations but he wasn't a gimmick Qb. Hendon hooked ran an identical offense to Dart but he wasn't a system qb. Seems like that's a lazy narrative to go with at this point especially with the 15 seconds that Qbs have to talk with their hc before each play, the hc just points out the 2 hot reads based on how the defense lines up. That's on the college game changing and every qb doing that, not just Dart, but because it's convenient let's ding Dart for it.

SiriusXM NFL Radio Jim Miller (former NFL QB) on quarterbacks

Dart was impressive at the combine.  Enough so to where I now have him neck and neck with Sanders as QB2 and to be perfectly honest for the Giants offense I think he's a better fit than Sanders.  Mainly because of the running ability and the stronger arm. 

Ward is the best in this class.  That's been the case throughout the entire process and nothing has moved me off of that.  But Dart is an intriguing prospect and while it might be a little high to pick him at #3 if Ward goes #1 and not to the Giants they might just have to take Dart at #3.  Because at least to me I think there's a pretty large gap from Dart to the next QB.

Daniel Jeremiah: Why NFL Scouts are Split on Colorado QB Shedeur Sanders

I've seen both interviews of Sanders and Dart, and I like both of them. I would say both are good guys.

However, in Dart's interview, he seems a bit sharper mentally and has a good personality as well. Combined that he's a big Star Wars fan, I like that.

I do think the Giants draft one of these three QB's though, and if they don't trade up, it'll be the one that falls to them.

More than likely Ward will go first, and then it'll be between Dart and Sanders, and whichever one is there I believe the Giants will take.

https://x.com/2highcoverage/status/1896352157315870818?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 02, 2025, 07:21:01 PMhttps://x.com/2highcoverage/status/1896352157315870818?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Please...

I may not want Sanders for the Giants but let's give this tough son of a gun some credit playing behind a worse Offense Line than DJ ever faced. It's not that long and if you want to see what Shedeur Sanders brings to the table, this is the one to watch. I'm more concerned about him taking a sack on a free play than the fact that he doesn't have a Josh Allen arm. Just watch what this kid can do. 

A week from tomorrow FA starts with negotiations. By the end of next week let's see if we really care about any of these QBs in the first round anymore.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 02, 2025, 11:42:22 AMI think the System Dart was in is just a weak excuse to not do a deep dive on him, same with the Corral comparison, and kiffin despite turning a safety into a 2× national champion can't develop NFL Qb talent.

The fact is that 95% of college Qbs run a system with 1 or 2 primary reads. Ohio St couldn't ever have a successful NFL QB until Stroud happened. Jayden Daniels ran basically the same offense as Dart with slight variations but he wasn't a gimmick Qb. Hendon hooked ran an identical offense to Dart but he wasn't a system qb. Seems like that's a lazy narrative to go with at this point especially with the 15 seconds that Qbs have to talk with their hc before each play, the hc just points out the 2 hot reads based on how the defense lines up. That's on the college game changing and every qb doing that, not just Dart, but because it's convenient let's ding Dart for it.

Hooker was a system QB as well.  Tennessee WRs run probably the fewest routes in the route tree and most importantly s straight outside the hashmarks.

Quote from: Philosophers on March 02, 2025, 08:20:42 PMHooker was a system QB as well.  Tennessee WRs run probably the fewest routes in the route tree and most importantly s straight outside the hashmarks.

What I was saying is that the national media never brought up him being a system Qb or Daniels being a system Qb when they were being drafted. The hang up on Hooker and Daniels was really age and that was really the tag line. Dart played in 3 very different systems through high school, and college; the winged T, Air raid, and kiffins offense. He succeeded in all 3 at a high level but because he was in kiffins he's automatically written off.

Nothing happened at the combine to change my opinion that this is a weak QB class that doesn't warrant a high pick - and to me, that includes rounds 1 - 3.

And breaking down team needs, there are 8 teams (including the Giants) that are likely to take a QB. So I'm totally fine with waiting until the 4th round to grab someone. We know Ward, Sanders, Dart, Milroe, and Ewers will be gone. But that means one of Shough / McCord / Howard will very likely be available at the top of the 4th.

I'd much rather have Hunter and pair one of those guys with Russ or Mariota and then take a QB in round 1 next year vs. waste a high pick on a mid guy like Sanders, miss out on Hunter, and then not take someone in a much better class next year.

One more log on the fire.

https://x.com/joshnorris/status/1896711370051387498?s=46&t=4x-JXwsXYehIZ1h3v6r-zQ

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 02, 2025, 09:27:41 PMWhat I was saying is that the national media never brought up him being a system Qb or Daniels being a system Qb when they were being drafted. The hang up on Hooker and Daniels was really age and that was really the tag line. Dart played in 3 very different systems through high school, and college; the winged T, Air raid, and kiffins offense. He succeeded in all 3 at a high level but because he was in kiffins he's automatically written off.

I remember specifically the media talking about Heupel's offense being a one read throw outside the hashmarks system.

Look at the NFL success of Nabers and Brian Thomas out of LSU versus Jalin Hyatt and Cedric Tillman from Temnessee.  As far as pure physical skills and talent, I dont think the Tennessee pair are much different than the LSU pair however on route running, scheme knowledge, etc., the Tennessee pair do not come close to the LSU pair which is why one pair has been successful to date in the NFL and the other has been much less successful.

Daniels was not the system QB you make him out to be.

https://x.com/SmartfootbalI/status/1896645690920681545

Quote from: madbadger on March 04, 2025, 07:37:33 AMOne more log on the fire.

https://x.com/joshnorris/status/1896711370051387498?s=46&t=4x-JXwsXYehIZ1h3v6r-zQ

This is not the sort of information you want to hear for a guy with concerns due to his father and the sort of high PR environment.   You wanted to hear he was engaged regardless if he believes another team would draft him.

Reacting To Jaxson Dart's BEST Moments From The NFL COMBINE (by former NFL QB)

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 04, 2025, 08:49:29 AMThis is not the sort of information you want to hear for a guy with concerns due to his father and the sort of high PR environment.  You wanted to hear he was engaged regardless if he believes another team would draft him.

Watching him get interviewed at the combine by Stacey Dales, his personality is for lack of better words, Chill, lighthearted, somewhat Glib. Big smile all the time and just a happy kid. He almost seemed like he had just smoked a joint, and his teammate Horn came off the same way. This is not a serious, tightly wrapped person. It's not necessarily a negative thing.

https://x.com/SkoBuffsGoBuffs/status/1895991563349901315?

The former NFL QB breaks down the following QBs (roughly 12 minute videos on each)

Ward
Sanders
Dart
McCord
Howard
Milroe

https://www.youtube.com/@KurtBenkert/videos

https://x.com/nickfalato/status/1896928338050220084

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 04, 2025, 09:10:35 AMWatching him get interviewed at the combine by Stacey Dales, his personality is for lack of better words, Chill, lighthearted, somewhat Glib. Big smile all the time and just a happy kid. He almost seemed like he had just smoked a joint, and his teammate Horn came off the same way. This is not a serious, tightly wrapped person. It's not necessarily a negative thing.

https://x.com/SkoBuffsGoBuffs/status/1895991563349901315?

I think his personality would mesh well with the offense which is full of young guys.  Nabers appears to already have a nice relationship with him.  They could use a little moxy from the QB position for a change.  If he's the guy that the team deems the best fit I'm fine with it.  I personally think Ward and Dart from a skillset standpoint are both better, and if the rumors of the Giants trying to move up to #1 are true they at the very least agree about Ward. But if they don't move up and just take Sanders at 3 then they roll with Sanders.  No matter who they pick he's likely to be an upgrade over what they've been dealing with the better part of the last decade.

https://x.com/nickfalato/status/1896931998071161324

In a likely preview of the sort of drama that will follow Sanders, Josina Anderson rises up in a strong defense of the Colorada passer



JosinaAnderson
@JosinaAnderson
I am disappointed to hear that a quarterbacks coach from a team drafting in the top 7 referred to Shedeur Sanders as coming off "brash" and "arrogant" in his team interview and making his assessment known to a number of people, per source. I'm purposely not naming the team, as not to directly call the team out. I'm just sharing that this coach's personal assessment is the direct opposite from how Sanders came across to many reporters in his press conference with the media at the Combine. Sanders appeared to go out of his way to acknowledge multiple media members, regardless if they were recognizable or not. He seemed cordial, polite, witty, thoughtful along with being confident (as many athletes are). Alternately, these observations were distinctly different from how another QB prospect came off to some in the media last year in Indy.

According to league sources, said QB coach seems to have issue with "the culture" of athletes who have broad fame and financial success before entering the NFL, and in their* opinions, appears to them to have a problem certain athletes—I'll leave it at that.

This is how pre-Draft evaluations can get jacked because of evaluators who don't seemingly possess the discernment to detect intangible traits that are connected to the will and drive to win without being a stat, or delineated in an analytics report.

He's literally Deion Sanders' son, and despite growing up different from most, seemed fairly grounded.

Hopefully any potential biases towards "the culture" are being checked at the door, as not to unduly impact stock & business. The modern day college athelete is evolving, as is the scale of business and opportunities surrounding them before entering professional leagues.

Adaption sounds necessary, and not just for Sanders.
3:16 PM · Mar 3, 2025
·
4.8M
 Views

The coach is also not in favor of getting him. That is what prompted my post, because there are other folks in the building who vehemently disagree with that assessment. The comments (all of which I did not report) were over the top. Even beyond football, Sanders is obviously a marketing star as well.

3:40 PM · Mar 3, 2025
·
233.5K
 Views


https://x.com/JosinaAnderson/status/1896661871090077936

I have noticed NYG employee Madeline Burks has been reposting a lot of pro-Sanders propaganda


Madelyn Burke reposted
Bucky Brooks
@BuckyBrooks
Thanks for sharing
@JosinaAnderson
 
Every year, we watch a high profile QB deal with this nonsense. No one expects Sanders to be a perfect fit for every coach and organization, but the unnecessary character attacks by NFL personnel and some media members with NFL backgrounds is garbage.. These unflattering and unfounded remarks haunt  prospects beyond the pre-draft process, including tainting a fan base's opinion before the player takes the field for a squad.. it's stupid

https://x.com/BuckyBrooks/status/1896698965120204894

https://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1895983014494290087

Quote from: Gmo11 on March 04, 2025, 09:31:37 AMI think his personality would mesh well with the offense which is full of young guys.  Nabers appears to already have a nice relationship with him.  They could use a little moxy from the QB position for a change.  If he's the guy that the team deems the best fit I'm fine with it.  I personally think Ward and Dart from a skillset standpoint are both better, and if the rumors of the Giants trying to move up to #1 are true they at the very least agree about Ward. But if they don't move up and just take Sanders at 3 then they roll with Sanders.  No matter who they pick he's likely to be an upgrade over what they've been dealing with the better part of the last decade.

I think Sanders will be a good QB on the right team, and NY isn't one of those teams. A dome stadium would be best and he would be a great fit for the Saints. 

https://x.com/TyreeNation/status/1896605620473614374

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 04, 2025, 01:22:59 PMhttps://x.com/TyreeNation/status/1896605620473614374

Why didn't he just say, there are better players at 3? He's not wrong. It would be monumentally stupid to move up to pick a QB too.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 04, 2025, 11:51:54 AMI think Sanders will be a good QB on the right team, and NY isn't one of those teams. A dome stadium would be best and he would be a great fit for the Saints. 

He feels a bit like Chad Pennington to me at this point.  Good timing thrower but nothing overwhelming.

(https://preview.redd.it/mwlbxwkb5wme1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=72eb60cd693055ffa3cc4752e2659359b957e365)

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 05, 2025, 11:22:08 AM(https://preview.redd.it/mwlbxwkb5wme1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=72eb60cd693055ffa3cc4752e2659359b957e365)

That may be one of the best summary charts I have ever seen.  Well done Rich.

I like how Dart has thrown more deep balls yet maintained a good completion %.

Am a bit troubled that Ward is only 6'1".  He has weight at 219 so not frail but shorter is harder to see over.

https://x.com/RichEisenShow/status/1897359421929611454

https://x.com/geoffschwartz/status/1897627199185756287

https://x.com/ChaseDaniel/status/1897641265619173738

https://x.com/NFL/status/1897394072052256853

1
Tennessee Titans

Shedeur Sanders
Colorado · QB · Senior
Tennessee has all the options with the No. 1 overall pick. In this scenario, second-year head coach Brian Callahan channels his Cincinnati days, seeing in Sanders some of the same qualities Joe Burrow possesses.

Pick
2
Cleveland Browns

Cam Ward
Miami · QB · Senior
Ward has been on quite the upward trajectory -- going from Incarnate Word to Washington State to Miami -- and the quarterback-starved Browns bank on that continuing in Cleveland.

Pick
3
New York Giants

Jaxson Dart
Mississippi · QB · Senior
The last time the Giants went all in on a QB from Ole Miss, it worked out pretty well. I know people have not been projecting Dart to go this high, but New York has a screaming need at the position. After passing on Michael Penix Jr., J.J. McCarthy and Bo Nix in last year's draft, the G-Men might not feel like they can sit back and wait this time around.

https://www.nfl.com/news/charles-davis-2025-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-qbs-shedeur-sanders-cam-ward-and-jaxson-dart-go-1-2-3

https://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1897667961952809078

If you are into analytics (like I am) this is a great breakdown of the QBs


https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/fantasy/dynasty-rookie-rankings-quarterbacks-profiles-outlook-pre-draft-fantasy-football-2025/

On Jaxson Dart:

"I watched every single game for the whole time he was playing, I watched every play of every game against every opponent,'' Charlie Weis told The Post. "I know if I was coaching in this league, and this is no disrespect to Cam Ward or [Shedeur] Sanders because I think they're both heckuva players. But I know if I was coaching in the league right now I'd want him as my quarterback. Because I already know what I'm getting on the field and I know what I'm getting off the field and I know I can win with him.''

https://nypost.com/2025/03/06/sports/charlie-weis-makes-bold-jaxson-dart-claim-as-ole-miss-qb-rises-up-nfl-draft-boards/

My feeling is that if the Giants are to come away from this Draft with a QB with any real chance of being or soon becoming their 2025 starter, it will have to be either Ward, Sanders, or Dart. However, in doing so, I hope to not see them trade up from 3. Moreover, I would prefer that with the best of good fortune, they will be able to take Travis Hunter at 3 and trade up for Dart somewhat later in the 1st.

And if not, I would prefer them to get an above average Veteran QB1, roll with a later Round rookie QB2 and wait until next year. Yeah sure, like much or any of that's gonna happen. Stop it now! Behave yourself.

Cheers!   

JT broke down ever single game of Shedeur Sanders 2024 games. I saw most of them. This is the the most complete evaluation you will find and it's from someone who actually played the position.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 06, 2025, 01:05:51 PMJT broke down ever single game of Shedeur Sanders 2024 games. I saw most of them. This is the the most complete evaluation you will find and it's from someone who actually played the position.

The Cliff notes:
https://x.com/theqbschool/status/1897394480271253701?

@Ed Vette


https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1897708550291362169

Really now? That's a big help even if we could otherwise figure it out which is why I wouldn't dare link to it.

Cheers!

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 06, 2025, 01:18:47 PM@Ed Vette


https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1897708550291362169

Rich,
JT is spot on. That Offense is horrible. They are in 10 personnel almost 95% of the time. It's nowhere near a Pro Offense. It kills the OT's who aren't very good to begin with. Think the worst the NYGs Offensive Line ever was, and this is it. No creativity, No Running Game, No Motion. They killed this kid, and I blame his dad too. It's a shame because the receivers are very good to Hunter good. I just watched the Nebraska game and that's all you need to know about that Offense. I was shocked that it's a Pat Shurmur product, but the talent just isn't there. SS is going to need a year to prepare for this league and start. Contrary to what some might think, I don't blame SS.

https://x.com/dpshow/status/1898097570876211410

https://x.com/JetPackGalileo/status/1898610425815536058

People see one throw by any QB who does things right and concludes greatness.  Consistency of pattern.

That's why I rely less on what others see because you have to watch a player across many games to see a pattern of consistency and context.

I like Dart's.. ceiling...not Shedurr. Sanders has a high floor .lower ceiling to me.

My approach would be take Carter or Hunter if available..if not trade down and grab Dart to develop..add draft capital so needed.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on March 09, 2025, 12:19:19 PMI like Dart's.. ceiling...not Shedurr. Sanders has a high floor .lower ceiling to me.

My approach would be take Carter or Hunter if available..if not trade down and grab Dart to develop..add draft capital so needed.

That makes sense though I'd add Graham and Johnson for #3 pick and hope Dart lasts to round 2.  Would need OL help though in round 3 and look for more DL help in round 4 if you dont take Carter or Graham.

Quote from: Philosophers on March 09, 2025, 12:24:02 PMThat makes sense though I'd add Graham and Johnson for #3 pick and hope Dart lasts to round 2.  Would need OL help though in round 3 and look for more DL help in round 4 if you dont take Carter or Graham.

Yes..and those two...good catch

And Dart played with the big boy football of the SEC...that's as close to pro intensity anywhere..and broke records..has the requisite skills to become a very solid..very good starter..so I'm in on him later

https://x.com/mikeforcella/status/1900951469139906713?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Did anyone think that Jayden Daniels would be as good as he is so quickly ?    If by chance Cam Ward turns out to be a franchise QBs then winning the Indianapolis game will turn out to be one of the biggest blunders no matter what John Mara says

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on March 17, 2025, 05:55:40 AMDid anyone think that Jayden Daniels would be as good as he is so quickly ?    If by chance Cam Ward turns out to be a franchise QBs then winning the Indianapolis game will turn out to be one of the biggest blunders no matter what John Mara says

Daniels was thought of quite highly by most draft evaluators.  The biggest concern seemed to be his size and aggressive style that generated big hits.  The fear was not that he would be a bad QB, but rather he would get hurt.   To JD's credit, he became more cautious when he got to the NFL.

The only other concern with Daniels was he was throwing to two elite WRs in Nabers and Thomas.

I don't think Ward is the same level of prospect as Daniels.  I think he is closer to the Nix level of prospect.  Perhaps the biggest concerns with Ward his his penchant for ill-advised throws leading to INTs and his passing up good yardage due to play design while trying to make more off-script.

PFF scouting reports on the big three


https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report-qb-cam-ward-miami

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report-qb-shedeur-sanders-colorado

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2025-nfl-draft-scouting-report-qb-jaxson-dart-ole-miss

McShay seems to think it will be Ward and Sanders one and two

Why Shedeur to the Browns makes sense

Last week, during an interview with Browns play-by-play broadcaster Andrew Siciliano, franchise cornerstone Myles Garrett hinted that he knows Cleveland's future plans at quarterback. When Siciliano asked whether Garrett liked the idea, he responded by saying, "I like it enough to be here smiling in front of you, because I think we have a good chance of that happening and making the most of it."

Many fans thought those comments pointed to Colorado quarterback Shedeur Sanders, whom the Browns have a clear path to drafting with the no. 2 pick. And more smoke supporting that theory arrived over the weekend, after Sanders exchanged pleasantries with Cleveland Guardians top prospect Travis Bazzana on Instagram.

While I don't typically peddle in this type of rumor mongering and the above examples are far from hard evidence, I think the conspiracy theorists may be onto something. For starters, it's apparent that Cleveland is on the list of acceptable spots for Shedeur to land, which isn't the case for every team in the NFL draft QB market. And while I've reported that two teams (both of which need a QB) who interviewed Sanders at the scouting combine weren't overly impressed by him, it's worth noting that Cleveland wasn't one of those teams.

Maybe there's fire to the smoke, maybe there isn't. Either way, I want to advance the narrative. Over the weekend, I took some time to re-familiarize myself with Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski's history and did some serious thinking about what general manager Andrew Berry, Stefanski, and the organization are up against because of the Deshaun Watson contract mess. I also made some calls to people I trust—who are or have been in that GM seat—for their perspective on the situation. 

From an organizational standpoint, Cleveland's only way out of salary cap purgatory is to land their guy at QB on a rookie contract. They can't expect to be drafting again this high for a while, and because of Watson's deal also don't have the cap space to make a big-ticket signing at QB, which is why they were never in the Matthew Stafford or Sam Darnold sweepstakes.

For Berry and Stefanski specifically, it's all about winning now. If Cleveland is drafting this high again next year, there's a good chance both guys are out of a job. If they think they have a roster good enough to win a lot of games in 2025—and probably for the next two years—they need solid (not elite, just solid to above-average) QB play as soon as possible. They also know that they won't have the money to sign a top-tier starter at QB next year, so the situation isn't changing during the 2026 offseason. 

This is all to say that Cleveland's best chance at winning short and long term is to strike gold with the no. 2 pick. Is Shedeur an elite prospect? No. Would he have been one of the top four or five QBs taken last year? No. But if I'm Berry, I understand putting my trust in my head coach, who has a proven track record of getting the most out of pocket-passing quarterbacks that lack elite arm strength and mobility. Sound familiar? 

Shedeur's skill set is strikingly similar to the handful of QBs that Stefanski has won a lot of games with in the past, including Case Keenum (who won 11 games for the Vikings with Stefanski as QB coach in 2017), Kirk Cousins (whose Vikings team won 10 games under Stefanski as offensive coordinator in 2019), and most recently, a late-career Joe Flacco, who went 4-1 as the Browns starter in 2023.

Sanders also seemingly wants to be a Brown despite Cleveland's track record at QB, and he's the best pure pocket passer in this year's class when he's protected and playing on schedule. If he isn't ready for Week 1, Stefanski and Co. should still be able to win a few games with Kenny Pickett. And if the front office can get Russell Wilson on the cheap, great. Let all three guys battle it out in camp, with the best man winning the job come late August.

https://mcshay-report.beehiiv.com/p/shedeur-sanders-browns-running-back-tiers

https://x.com/CSimmsQB/status/1901681703577411585

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GmQI2C9aAAABwRu?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GmQWk2OWMAAeoCh?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GmQWkJSaYAAYr0D?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)


https://x.com/CFBNumbers/status/1901654838091407868

https://x.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1901646389437714848

Enough already.    Sign Wilson for two years and hope to get Dart in draft.
Stop fooling around and get it done


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2025 Draft QB Ranks: Shedeur Sanders Tier 1? | Chris Simms Unbuttoned


(0:00) Chris talks about his hits & misses
(9:00) 2025 vs 2024 QB class
(16:00) #1 QB Cam Ward (Miami)
(33:30) #2 QB Shedeur Sanders (Colorado)
(53:35) #3 QB Jaxson Dart (Ole Miss)
(1:08:10) #4 QB Kyle McCord (Syracuse)
(1:18:00) #5 QB Quinn Ewers (Texas)
(1:30:30) Honorable Mentions: Tyler Shough (Louisville)
(1:34:00) Dillon Gabriel (Oregon)
(1:36:00) Graham Mertz (Florida)
(1:37:30) Jalen Milroe (Alabama)
(1:45:10) Riley Leonard (Notre Dame)
(1:49:05) What about...Brady Cook (Missouri)
(1:50:00) Will Howard (Ohio State)

I listened to the Chris Simms podcast of the video I posted.  After listening to it, I am a little higher on Sanders and McCord. 

One thing I thought was odd (since Simms doesn't listen to others, he will have outlier opinions) was he didn't think Dart was athletic (at least not as athletic as Sanders) despite Dart having significantly more rushing yards than either Ward or Sanders.

The other thing is that I really can't see the Titans not selecting Ward who is clearly the best of the bunch and has the potential of being a good NFL QB.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 18, 2025, 09:24:19 AMI listened to the Chris Simms podcast of the video I posted.  After listening to it, I am a little higher on Sanders and McCord. 

One thing I thought was odd (since Simms doesn't listen to others, he will have outlier opinions) was he didn't think Dart was athletic (at least not as athletic as Sanders) despite Dart having significantly more rushing yards than either Ward or Sanders.

The other thing is that I really can't see the Titans not selecting Ward who is clearly the best of the bunch and has the potential of being a good NFL QB.

This is why the Giants intentions of trading up to #1 are basically dead.  Same as last year, they want the QB but so does the team they are trying to trade with so that team is not budging.  Sure was a great thing to beat the Colts in that meaningless freaking game huh?  Same as that Devito Linsanity run he had the year before?  That's how you get stuck in QB hell waiting around for a sociopathic lunatic to decide on his own damn time if he wants to ruin your franchise the way he did the last one he played for.  It's infuriating that Mara somehow thinks that's how to run a team.

Anyways...whether its Sanders or Dart or Wilson it's going to be an upgrade.  How much of an upgrade remains to be seen but it's going to be better than it was if nothing else.

Quote from: Gmo11 on March 18, 2025, 09:29:25 AMThis is why the Giants intentions of trading up to #1 are basically dead.  Same as last year, they want the QB but so does the team they are trying to trade with so that team is not budging.  Sure was a great thing to beat the Colts in that meaningless freaking game huh?  Same as that Devito Linsanity run he had the year before?  That's how you get stuck in QB hell waiting around for a sociopathic lunatic to decide on his own damn time if he wants to ruin your franchise the way he did the last one he played for.  It's infuriating that Mara somehow thinks that's how to run a team.

Anyways...whether its Sanders or Dart or Wilson it's going to be an upgrade.  How much of an upgrade remains to be seen but it's going to be better than it was if nothing else.

Nabers was banged up that game and could have easily been rested.  Thanks to Mara's no tanking and Daboll's fear for his job, they played Nabers, and he had a lights-out game against a terrible Colts defense, and the rest (as they say) is history.

That said, we can't go back in time and change things.  We can only push forward.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 18, 2025, 09:31:47 AMNabers was banged up that game and could have easily been rested.  Thanks to Mara's (no tanking) and Daboll's fear for their job, they played Nabers, and he had a lights-out game against a terrible Colts defense, and the rest (as they say) is history.

That said, we can't go back in time and change things.  We can only push forward.

Exactly right!  There was no reason to play Nabers in that game.  The only thing I could think at the time was that Nabers demanded it to get the Giants receiving records and get to 1000 yards which....i mean...sure...but seems like he'd rather HAVE AN ACTUAL LIVING BREATHING QB FOR THE NEXT 8 YEARS INSTEAD.

But given what Mara said, chances are HE was the one that demanded they go all out to win every game they could for absolutely no reason.  While at the same time making it clear if they didn't win at least one game down the stretch everybody was fired. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 18, 2025, 09:24:19 AMI listened to the Chris Simms podcast of the video I posted.  After listening to it, I am a little higher on Sanders and McCord. 

One thing I thought was odd (since Simms doesn't listen to others, he will have outlier opinions) was he didn't think Dart was athletic (at least not as athletic as Sanders) despite Dart having significantly more rushing yards than either Ward or Sanders.

The other thing is that I really can't see the Titans not selecting Ward who is clearly the best of the bunch and has the potential of being a good NFL QB.

This is why I try to avoid the take of others, even ones I respect, like Chris and Kurt Warner. Unless they are breaking down film, I don't know the basis for their opinions.

Although Dart won't translate into a dual threat QB in the nature of Jackson, he is absolutely a good athlete. He's been compared to Hurts, but I can see how well he fits what Daboll likes to do with RPOs and Read Option. I can also see him used in a couple of QB Run options. Dart's strength is RPO/PRO and his decisiveness. He's faster than he looks and he can escape first level tackles, while protecting himself.

My difficulty in evaluating these QBs is that the more film I watch and then reviewing their Combine or lack there of, and their Pro Days, it leaves me with an uncertainty that I didn't have before all the research.

For example, I was liking McCord before the combine and then I had reservations about the velocity of his throws. Then his Pro Day under ideal circumstances, brings me back.

Sanders with his polished mechanics and accuracy, didn't complete the package with all the sacks he took. He had a horrible Oine and lousy Offensive Playbook. I have to grade him on a curve and the reality is that it prepared him well for what to expect at the next level.

With Ward, I question some of his decisions. That's even more so for Dart, where I have difficulty getting past that Florida game. I remember after watching that game live, my initial reaction was that he will choke in big moments. Although Ward had a good game against Syracuse, he still lost the game to McCord.

There are traits and strengths I like about the second tier QBs, that show promise. I like McCord, Leonard, Shough and Dillon Gabriel. And Will Howard demands respect for what he's accomplished. As I've said before, there doesn't seem to be much space between the top three and the rest of the pack.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 18, 2025, 11:27:52 AMMy difficulty in evaluating these QBs is that the more film I watch and then reviewing their Combine or lack there of, and their Pro Days, it leaves me with an uncertainty that I didn't have before all the research.

For example, I was liking McCord before the combine and then I had reservations about the velocity of his throws. Then his Pro Day under ideal circumstances, brings me back.

Sanders with his polished mechanics and accuracy, didn't complete the package with all the sacks he took. He had a horrible Oine and lousy Offensive Playbook. I have to grade him on a curve and the reality is that it prepared him well for what to expect at the next level.

With Ward, I question some of his decisions. That's even more so for Dart, where I have difficulty getting past that Florida game. I remember after watching that game live, my initial reaction was that he will choke in big moments. Although Ward had a good game against Syracuse, he still lost the game to McCord.

There are traits and strengths I like about the second tier QBs, that show promise. I like McCord, Leonard, Shough and Dillon Gabriel. And Will Howard demands respect for what he's accomplished. As I've said before, there doesn't seem to be much space between the top three and the rest of the pack.

If you look at the Florida game, at least the first 3 quarters, Dart throws a masterpiece, I was listening to mcshay the other day echo the same sentiments. The last 3-4 throws that were him trying to play hero ball down his top 2 wrs, te1, 3 olinemen, and top 2 Rbs. If you rewatch that game, some of the things he did with his eyes and arm were ridiculous in an elite way.

I also agree with you on the athleticism, he's right there with Hurts and Allen in mobility so I'm not sure why he thought he wasn't mobile. His angry runs are one of my favorite parts of his game.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 18, 2025, 12:30:28 PMIf you look at the Florida game, at least the first 3 quarters, Dart throws a masterpiece, I was listening to mcshay the other day echo the same sentiments. The last 3-4 throws that were him trying to play hero ball down his top 2 wrs, te1, 3 olinemen, and top 2 Rbs. If you rewatch that game, some of the things he did with his eyes and arm were ridiculous in an elite way.

I also agree with you on the athleticism, he's right there with Hurts and Allen in mobility so I'm not sure why he thought he wasn't mobile. His angry runs are one of my favorite parts of his game.

He has a tendency to first look at the pass rush and then his first read. The Offensive is a masterpiece of scheming Receivers open, creating space and creating lanes for the RB. My guess is that they are 2 X 2 about 40% of snaps, 3 X 1 on 35% of snaps. He seldom gets past his first two reads and tends to stick to one side of the field, missing the wide open opportunities at the checkdowns. Of course, of the first two reads one or more is often open. Kiffen also likes to do multiple quick hitches, and about 20% of the plays are to an intended Receiver. That Florida game had multiple opportunities to drive the ball with short and intermediate throws, yet he put the ball in harms way. Those two final regular season games, the defense was in Cover 2 with middle open and he continued to attack outside the hash and numbers. His Bowl game and Arkansas game were masterful. Kiffen kept Dart in the game to the end and I don't know if it was to showcase him or not. Very odd since the backup QB who's a lefty is quite competent in his own right.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 18, 2025, 12:30:28 PMIf you look at the Florida game, at least the first 3 quarters, Dart throws a masterpiece, I was listening to mcshay the other day echo the same sentiments. The last 3-4 throws that were him trying to play hero ball down his top 2 wrs, te1, 3 olinemen, and top 2 Rbs. If you rewatch that game, some of the things he did with his eyes and arm were ridiculous in an elite way.

I also agree with you on the athleticism, he's right there with Hurts and Allen in mobility so I'm not sure why he thought he wasn't mobile. His angry runs are one of my favorite parts of his game.

I think his helmet was torn off about a half dozen times.

https://x.com/NFL_DF/status/1890469311438848257

https://x.com/OMRebelNation/status/1835290924651339874

https://x.com/allpurposescout/status/1901810750168908008

https://www.espn.com.sg/video/clip?id=38967584

https://www.espn.ph/video/clip?id=38532473

https://olemisssports.com/news/2024/9/15/football-watch-jaxson-dart-trucks-wake-forest-defense-on-td-run

https://youtu.be/MbKzBpjD3AQ?si=Jh0VrzEHBnEgY8D8


Dart being mobile, 1 of him trucking a guy to get a 1st down, 1 of him trucking a guy and carrying 2 others into the end zone, and 1 of him bursting down the field and leaping over an LSU defender.

Interesting take


https://x.com/SmartfootbalI/status/1902235387344646398

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 19, 2025, 08:52:32 AMInteresting take


https://x.com/SmartfootbalI/status/1902235387344646398

I have Dart as Qb1 as well, but I have Cam Ward as Qb2, and Howard as Qb3 with Sanders as QB4.

Landing Dart would be a tricky proposition.  How far down could you trade and still get him?  Or is it better plan to give up our 2rd round pick, plus whatever else it takes, to trade up into the middle of the first? 

The obvious advantage to trading up is, he's on the board and you know you're getting him. But how long do you wait?

Trading down to say, 14ish, you'll get some premium picks, maybe even a #1 next year, but you have no idea if he'll be there.

Yes, very tricky, indeed.   

https://x.com/FirstTake/status/1902023472064168142

https://x.com/Nate_Tice/status/1902382276950028673

https://x.com/Nate_Tice/status/1902383827928129620

https://x.com/MikeLucasTV/status/1902414437136408760

Kevin Smith

@KTSmithFFSN
·
1m
Been watching some Jaxson Dart film this morning. Very interesting QB prospect.

He does some nice stuff off-platform, and creates splash plays when he improvises. But I've been most impressed when he stands in the pocket, gets the ball out on time and attacks the middle of the field. You'll see from the videos I've clipped that he has good vision and a quick release, and isn't afraid of throwing into tight windows. He keeps his eyes downfield and doesn't look at the rush. Throws a decent deep ball, too.

Dart improved steadily vs. elite competition. He struggled as a junior vs Georgia and Alabama, but rebounded to light up both Penn State and LSU. As a senior, he beat Georgia and Oklahoma, then shredded Duke for 405 yds and 4 TDs in a bowl game. He showed steady improvement on big stages.

I see similarities between his game and Bo Nix. Most people thought Nix was a Round 2 pick last year and that Denver over-drafted him at #12 overall. But Nix had a great rookie season and now seems under-drafted in hindsight. Same may wind up being true of Dart.

https://x.com/KTSmithFFSN/status/1902718865676648868

https://x.com/SleeperGiants/status/1902736988916084957

Nate Tice- A former University of Wisconsin quarterback, Nate Tice analyzes NFL trends and draft prospects. Tice was previously a coach and scout in the NFL before writing and podcasting professionally.


Here are two really well-done (and very long) scouting reports on Ward and Sanders


https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football/article/2025-nfl-draft-cam-ward-is-much-more-than-the-top-qb-of-a-weak-class-heres-why-234835325.html

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/article/shedeur-sanders-nfl-draft-profile-lets-sift-through-the-noise-and-evaluate-the-buzziest-player-this-class-015850757.html

Warren Sharp
@SharpFootball
Shedeur Sanders:

81% comp on passes from a clean pocket

#1 in draft class

70% on-target rate on throws 10+ yards downfield

#2 in draft class

48% of his passes came without help via design (no play action, motion, RPO or screens on play)

#1 highest rate in draft class

on those many attempts without help:

70% comp
10.6 YPA
10% TD rate
1:02 PM · Mar 7, 2025
·
186.7K
 Views

https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1898071806914994564

So, opinions vary drastically on these QBs. I'm fine with any of them. I am beginning to think Sanders is the Giants pick at 3 and I am 100% ok with that. I think he will prove to be a very good NFL QB!

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2025, 11:47:35 AMWarren Sharp
@SharpFootball
Shedeur Sanders:

81% comp on passes from a clean pocket

#1 in draft class

70% on-target rate on throws 10+ yards downfield

#2 in draft class

48% of his passes came without help via design (no play action, motion, RPO or screens on play)

#1 highest rate in draft class

on those many attempts without help:

70% comp
10.6 YPA
10% TD rate
1:02 PM · Mar 7, 2025
·
186.7K
 Views

https://x.com/SharpFootball/status/1898071806914994564

Because Dart is ranked #1 on most major qb stats coming into this draft, Warren had to get real creative there in the wording to find something Sanders was number 1 at, and the one he listed where Sanders was #2, Dart was #1.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 19, 2025, 01:47:20 PMhttps://x.com/MikeLucasTV/status/1902414437136408760

I was talking to some of the boosters and scouts the other day at Ole Miss' spring practice and asked them why we(Ole Miss) or any SEC team never went after Shough. In the 7 games he played in as a backup at Oregon in 2020 he went like 107 of 167 for 1550 and 13 tds. Teams should have been salivating to sign him especially considering he was a highly ranked recruit coming out of high school but there was nothing, crickets. He settled on Texas Tech, which is a long fall for his pedigree and tape. Then he couldn't win the starting job over a beer salesmen at Texas Tech. Then he transfers again and no one really lined up wanting him, and he went to Louisville. From what they told me there are some serious concerns there with attitude, laziness, and so on. That's why he didn't really start at Texas tech when he was injured. He was in the same high school class as Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence which is bonkers in its on way. Anyways take that with a grain of salt but the were insistent that Tyler was a problem, he thought he was "Gods gift to football" and everyone else was just meh.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 21, 2025, 01:20:51 PMI was talking to some of the boosters and scouts the other day at Ole Miss' spring practice and asked them why we(Ole Miss) or any SEC team never went after Shough. In the 7 games he played in as a backup at Oregon in 2020 he went like 107 of 167 for 1550 and 13 tds. Teams should have been salivating to sign him especially considering he was a highly ranked recruit coming out of high school but there was nothing, crickets. He settled on Texas Tech, which is a long fall for his pedigree and tape. Then he couldn't win the starting job over a beer salesmen at Texas Tech. Then he transfers again and no one really lined up wanting him, and he went to Louisville. From what they told me there are some serious concerns there with attitude, laziness, and so on. That's why he didn't really start at Texas tech when he was injured. He was in the same high school class as Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence which is bonkers in its on way. Anyways take that with a grain of salt but the were insistent that Tyler was a problem, he thought he was "Gods gift to football" and everyone else was just meh.

Thanks for the intel, Jess.  It's possible with age came maturity and a better attitude

Why Shedeur Sanders is the 2025 NFL Draft's top quarterback; plus, four ideal team fits
Published: Mar 21, 2025 at 06:03 PM
Author
Bucky Brooks

https://www.nfl.com/news/why-shedeur-sanders-is-the-2025-nfl-draft-s-top-quarterback-plus-four-ideal-team-fits

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 23, 2025, 09:00:15 AMWhy Shedeur Sanders is the 2025 NFL Draft's top quarterback; plus, four ideal team fits
Published: Mar 21, 2025 at 06:03 PM
Author
Bucky Brooks

https://www.nfl.com/news/why-shedeur-sanders-is-the-2025-nfl-draft-s-top-quarterback-plus-four-ideal-team-fits

Which is why he and Ward will probably go one and two.

An interesting read


2025 NFL Draft: Quarterback superlatives

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-superlatives?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dhtwitter&utm_content=null

https://x.com/NYPost_Schwartz/status/1904153843291541570

From Walter Football


I surveyed team sources to see if they thought Dart was a legitimate first-round pick. Out of 10 teams surveyed, nine of them said no, he was not a legit first-rounder. The Steelers can now be added to that group to make it 10 out of 11.

https://walterfootball.com/steelers-dont-value-dart-as-a-1st-rounder.php

https://x.com/jordanraanan/status/1904290530655080747?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2025, 01:04:52 PMFrom Walter Football


I surveyed team sources to see if they thought Dart was a legitimate first-round pick. Out of 10 teams surveyed, nine of them said no, he was not a legit first-rounder. The Steelers can now be added to that group to make it 10 out of 11.

https://walterfootball.com/steelers-dont-value-dart-as-a-1st-rounder.php

I think teams are wary of kids who rise up so fast with excess hype. It got Daniel Jones picked much higher than where he was during the season before the Senior Bowl. The consensus is and will remain Ward and Sanders. The Giants will try to pick one of those two.

Shedeur Sanders – Episode #1 | NFL Pre-Draft 2025 | Kurt Warner Breaks Down the Game Tape

Quote from: katkavage on March 24, 2025, 06:49:49 PMI think teams are wary of kids who rise up so fast with excess hype. It got Daniel Jones picked much higher than where he was during the season before the Senior Bowl. The consensus is and will remain Ward and Sanders. The Giants will try to pick one of those two.

Dave Gettleman got Daniel Jones picked much higher than he was before the Senior Bowl.  Because he fell "full bloom in love" during that week.  No other GM with any sense about him would have taken him with the 6th pick.  Or perhaps even any 1st round pick at all.  It was just Gettleman doing his usual "I'm smarter than everybody else" schtick.  That never worked out a single time.

When I compare the college careers of Daniel Jones and Jaxson Dart, I am utterly baffled by anyone trying to use Daniel Jones as a comparison for Dart.  :-??

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 11:19:52 AMWhen I compare the college careers of Daniel Jones and Jaxson Dart, I am utterly baffled by anyone trying to use Daniel Jones as a comparison for Dart.  :-??

Who is comparing their careers?

Quote from: katkavage on March 25, 2025, 11:25:50 AMWho is comparing their careers?

When you compare Dart with Jones, you bring their respective resumes, regardless if that was your intention.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 11:40:30 AMWhen you compare Dart with Jones, you bring their respective resumes, regardless if that was your intention.

Wrong. I was making a comparison on how QB prospects sometimes rise late in the draft process. It has nothing to do with their resumes as college players. Dart has consistently been seen as a second round prospect for the NFL draft. Now after the Senior Bowl and combine some (but most don't) as possibly a top ten pick. It's similar to the Jones scenario. Absolutely nothing to do with their college careers.

Quote from: katkavage on March 25, 2025, 11:50:10 AMWrong. I was making a comparison on how QB prospects sometimes rise late in the draft process. It has nothing to do with their resumes as college players. Dart has consistently been seen as a second round prospect for the NFL draft. Now after the Senior Bowl and combine some (but most don't) as possibly a top ten pick. It's similar to the Jones scenario. Absolutely nothing to do with their college careers.

If my memory serves, Daniel Jones didn't "rise late."   That's part of the reason there was so much animosity generated over the pick.  While the Giants saw him as a first-round pick, the draft community saw him as a day-two pick.

When a player like Dart starts to rise in the draft community, it's because the Senior Bowl is the first chance for football pundits and the draft community to start to mingle with the NFL professionals.  Usually, players will rise or fall based on what they hear from the NFL people.

Besides Dart being a far more accomplished player than Daniel Jones, their draft stories are not truly similar.

Former GM Mike Tannenbaum did a mock draft where the Giants get Sander:

3. New York Giants
Shedeur Sanders, QB, Colorado

QuoteWhile the Giants have other massive weaknesses -- including the offensive line -- they can't pass on Sanders. And that still rings true after Friday's signing of Jameis Winston, who is at best a stopgap starter for New York. Sanders is incredibly tough, can make all the throws, processes reads quickly in the pocket and delivers accurate balls. He lacks high-end mobility but still shows good pocket movement traits.

I'm calling it now: Sanders projects as a top-15, maybe even top-12 starting QB in the NFL. That would be huge for a Giants franchise that ranked in the bottom five in just about every passing metric over the past two seasons.

Here's the thing, I remember having discussions with people here who insist that such a ranking isn't good enough, that it's top 10 or bust (some demanding top 5).

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 12:00:23 PMFormer GM Mike Tannenbaum did a mock draft where the Giants get Sander:

3. New York Giants
Shedeur Sanders, QB, Colorado


Here's the thing, I remember having discussions with people here who insist that such a ranking isn't good enough, that it's top 10 or bust (some demanding top 5).

It does get me thinking....if Sanders ends up as a QB around let's say 12th or so in the NFL.  So basically very good though not great.  Is he going to be toasted around these and other parts as a bust?  Because on the one hand if he's taken at 3 you expect him to be a special special talent but on the other hand the 12th best QB in the league is light years better than anything they've had since Eli and plenty good enough to win with.

Tyler Schough

https://x.com/TonyPauline/status/1904568355693998497

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 11:54:46 AMIf my memory serves, Daniel Jones didn't "rise late."   That's part of the reason there was so much animosity generated over the pick.  While the Giants saw him as a first-round pick, the draft community saw him as a day-two pick.

When a player like Dart starts to rise in the draft community, it's because the Senior Bowl is the first chance for football pundits and the draft community to start to mingle with the NFL professionals.  Usually, players will rise or fall based on what they hear from the NFL people.

Besides Dart being a far more accomplished player than Daniel Jones, their draft stories are not truly similar.

Not identical, but similar. Both were never projected to be first round picks.

There's a difference between rising late and where players actually get picked. Dart is rising late because for one reason as Rich said. "When a player like Dart starts to rise in the draft community, it's because the Senior Bowl is the first chance for football pundits and the draft community to start to mingle with the NFL professionals.  Usually, players will rise or fall based on what they hear from the NFL people."

Another reason is that other players who were not hyped up to that point get noticed, and more study is put into them with online evaluations and Podcasts. There was nothing that Dart did at the Combine or Senior Bowl that made him "clearly" stand out.

However, some teams and their GMs are influenced heavily by the Combine and Senior/Shriners weeks. Anthony Richardson's Combine workouts weighed heavily in Indy's decision to draft him so high. In the case of Daniel Jones, Gettleman stated he was influenced by the Senior Bowl, but it was also the case of a weak draft class and the decision to get a QB.

Then there is the case where player evaluations continue up to the weeks leading up to the draft, where Coaches and GMs actually get to meet and spend time with players that only their Scouts reported back on. Regarding Dart, most of the evaluation and research into him took place after the 2024 League Season. In my opinion, this QB Draft Class was pronounced as being very weak, except for Sanders and Ward. After more evaluation, Sanders went from being the clear-cut best QB, to Ward creating distance between the two of them. Then throughout the process of film evaluation and late-season and post-season analysis, it was discovered that the rest of the crop was not as weak as they were dismissed. Need for the position has created competition, and some of those second-day QBs will move up in the Draft, while Draft Community is unwilling to take a leap of faith prior to the Draft. It's safer just to sit. As they did with Bo Nix and Michael Penix last year.     

Quote from: katkavage on March 25, 2025, 12:32:35 PMNot identical, but similar. Both were never projected to be first round picks.

I would say 50% (perhaps even more) of mock drafts have Dart going in round one.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 25, 2025, 12:33:15 PMThere's a difference between rising late and where players actually get picked. Dart is rising late because for one reason as Rich said. "When a player like Dart starts to rise in the draft community, it's because the Senior Bowl is the first chance for football pundits and the draft community to start to mingle with the NFL professionals.  Usually, players will rise or fall based on what they hear from the NFL people."

Another reason is that other players who were not hyped up to that point get noticed, and more study is put into them with online evaluations and Podcasts. There was nothing that Dart did at the Combine or Senior Bowl that made him "clearly" stand out.

However, some teams and their GMs are influenced heavily by the Combine and Senior/Shriners weeks. Anthony Richardson's Combine workouts weighed heavily in Indy's decision to draft him so high. In the case of Daniel Jones, Gettleman stated he was influenced by the Senior Bowl, but it was also the case of a weak draft class and the decision to get a QB.

Then there is the case where player evaluations continue up to the weeks leading up to the draft, where Coaches and GMs actually get to meet and spend time with players that only their Scouts reported back on. Regarding Dart, most of the evaluation and research into him took place after the 2024 League Season. In my opinion, this QB Draft Class was pronounced as being very weak, except for Sanders and Ward. After more evaluation, Sanders went from being the clear-cut best QB, to Ward creating distance between the two of them. Then throughout the process of film evaluation and late-season and post-season analysis, it was discovered that the rest of the crop was not as weak as they were dismissed. Need for the position has created competition, and some of those second-day QBs will move up in the Draft, while Draft Community is unwilling to take a leap of faith prior to the Draft. It's safer just to sit. As they did with Bo Nix and Michael Penix last year.     

I definitely agree that because of the weak QB class coupled with so many QB-needy teams this year, Dart has risen higher than originally projected. He has made his way into the late first round and might even make it into the top ten. Though that's not saying that's a good thing for anyone but Dart.

Quote from: katkavage on March 25, 2025, 12:42:04 PMI definitely agree that because of the weak QB class coupled with so many QB-needy teams this year, Dart has risen higher than originally projected. He has made his way into the late first round and might even make it into the top ten. Though that's not saying that's a good thing for anyone but Dart.

After a year, how would you rank last year's QB Crop? Does their ceiling align with their one year ranking?
 
Daniels
Nix
Williams
Maye
Penix

McCarthy can't be evaluated yet.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 25, 2025, 12:55:00 PMAfter a year, how would you rank last year's QB Crop? Does their ceiling align with their one year ranking?
 
Daniels
Nix
Williams
Maye
Penix

McCarthy can't be evaluated yet.

All were projected to be first round picks. Maybe not Nix, but his resume was pretty good just not as good a prospect as Williams and Daniels and Maye. I would say you can't really evaluate Penix yet after two or three games. If you are making a comparison to Dart's rise, I don't see it. Listen, Maybe Dart will be a phenom. Who knows? But his rise was quick based on most 2024 ranking up until Senior Bowl and Combine where as the top two have been pretty steady in their rankings. That's all I'm saying.

I didn't post the rumor (because I didn't see any actual video, just a still shot), but in case you heard the rumor reported as fact


https://x.com/SkoBuffsGoBuffs/status/1904579781728797020

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
7m
ESPN sources: Tennessee will hold an additional private workout with potential No. 1 overall pick Cam Ward. The Titans have become increasingly impressed with Ward and, while they are expected to listen to offers for the No. 1 overall pick, it now would take an even stronger package to acquire the draft's top selection.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 01:14:36 PMAdam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
7m
ESPN sources: Tennessee will hold an additional private workout with potential No. 1 overall pick Cam Ward. The Titans have become increasingly impressed with Ward and, while they are expected to listen to offers for the No. 1 overall pick, it now would take an even stronger package to acquire the draft's top selection.

They are taking him. Not a chance they trade out

Quote from: katkavage on March 25, 2025, 01:18:38 PMThey are taking him. Not a chance they trade out

While I tend to think you're correct, I am not 100% sure.  That last line about needing more in a trade makes me wonder if the whole thing is a show to drive up the price for Ward.

Michael F. Florio
@MichaelFFlorio
Jaxson Dart 2024 rank among QB Class

- 91.9 PFF pass grade (1st)
- 69 PFF pass grade under pressure (3rd)
- 4,361 yds (3rd)
- 29 TDs (7th)
- 7% big time throw (1st)
- 9% BTT under pressure (1st)
- 12.4 air yds per att (1st)
- 76.1% adjusted completion (5th)
- 404 rush yds (1st)
1:15 PM · Mar 25, 2025
·
831
 Views

https://x.com/McShay13/status/1904577721683882026

Interesting that the Giants and Titans brought armies to Ward's Pro Day, but the Browns barely sent anyone


• It was interesting to see how the teams atop the draft approached Cam Ward's pro day at Miami on Monday.

The Tennessee Titans were out in full force, as you'd expect, with president of football operations Chad Brinker, GM Mike Borgonzi, assistant GM Dave Borgonzi, director of scouting A.J. Highsmith, VP/football advisor Reggie McKenzie, head coach Brian Callahan, OC Nick Holz and quarterbacks coach Bo Hardegree. The New York Giants also brought a crew: GM Joe Schoen, assistant GM Brandon Brown, director of player personnel Tim McDonnell, OC Mike Kafka, quarterbacks coach Shea Tierney and tight ends coach Tim Kelly (likely there to look at Elijah Arroyo).

Meanwhile, the Cleveland Browns had only assistant GM Glenn Cook (an ex-Hurricane linebacker), national scout Chris Buford and no coaches in attendance. I haven't been able to dig out a reason for the sparse Cleveland attendance yet, but it's at least interesting.


https://www.si.com/nfl/predicting-which-nfl-rules-proposals-pass

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 01:45:29 PMhttps://x.com/McShay13/status/1904577721683882026

I've seen many of those throws by Dart. Some connect, and some end badly. What he's missing is that his OLR is wide open for a First Down on that Dig. He saw it coming in anticipation, yet he put the ball in harm's way with the DB facing him. I know what McShay's point is, but he's fascinated by that while missing the more important point. I like Dart, and I believe he's the best QB in this Class, and it should be correctable in Coaching, but is he a Gun Slinger destined to be another Winston at the next level, or just what the Dr. ordered? If you're not clear on my point, then go watch the last quarter of the Florida game on November 23rd.

https://x.com/McShay13/status/1904588100375818400

https://x.com/ncoopdraft/status/1904582803775209966

Go to the 7:38 mark.  There is an excellent conversation about the Giants and whether they should draft Sanders.  They voice many of my thoughts and concerns

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2025, 02:45:44 PMGo to the 7:38 mark.  There is an excellent conversation about the Giants and whether they should draft Sanders.  They voice many of my thoughts and concerns

Should be moot. Cleveland will most likely draft him.

Quote from: katkavage on March 25, 2025, 02:49:54 PMShould be moot. Cleveland will most likely draft him.

I am hearing mixed messages. Some are sure that the Browns are drafting him as much as the other half seem sure they are not drafting him.

In my head, I am playing out both scenarios.  Should the Giants draft Sanders if he's there and what should they do if Sanders isn't there? 

At this movement in time, I actually like the idea of the Giants signing a second veteran and then drafting a QB in round 2 or moving back into round one to grab one.

I like Dart, I really do.  I am just not certain (at this point)that drafting him at 3 is more drafting for need rather than drafting to maximize value (with that being a combination of ability and position).

Also, if they go the two-veteran route with a day 2 (or trade-back) QB, I start to look at Milroe in a different light.  In terms of max ceiling, Milroe is the best, so a year of work might help improve his consistency.

https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1904618436548059594

https://x.com/gmenscouting/status/1888304963383902252?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ

2025 NFL Draft quarterback deep dive: Tyler Shough, Louisville

There's a reason why Shough is generating a buzz

By Chris Pflum

https://www.bigblueview.com/2025/3/26/24392854/2025-nfl-draft-quarterback-deep-dive-tyler-shough-louisville-scouting-report