Big Blue Huddle

Best-
1. Bobby Okereke
2. Upgrading the overall talent of the team ie churning the bottom of the roster.
3. The oline, while it hasn't been fixed, you can't knock the guy for trying, he's put assest after assess on the line.

Worst-

1. Not trading Barkley in 2022 at the deadline when he was white hot and the best back in the league.

2. Winning the Vikings game to cloud the overall plan for the rebuild. The Jones contract and Waller trade came about because of that one game. I fully believe had we lost in Minnesota Jones, Waller etc wouldn't be on the roster.

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 10, 2024, 10:10:19 AMHow did a discussion on whether the Giants are playoff team devolve into yet another tirade over Daniel Jones? It doesn't matter what anyone thinks at this point. DJ is the starting QB of this team in 2024 and until then first game opening day, all criticisms and accolades are history.

Quote from: T200 on June 10, 2024, 10:53:35 AMTo me, this is the key. It's no longer about whether Jones can elevate his play and his teammates. He can't. The team has to elevate and protect him. It's on Bricillo and the offensive line and it's on Daboll on how well he can scheme protection for his QB.

If the line sucks, this offense will blow.

I agree to an extent but looking at the schedule our oline could be significantly better and still get ripped apart because our schedule at least defensively is brutal. Outside the Falcons ànd colts we play some of the best defensive units in the league. So we could be a lot better and still not be better off if that makes sense.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 09, 2024, 07:45:18 PMHi,

This hasn't been the first time that you have attempted to minimize DJ's solid performances in 2022. I've noticed those that do not like him, have to make up excuse after excuse as to when he succeeds, instead of acknowledging the fact when he plays well.

For instance, against the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2022 he won "NFC offensive player of the week". He threw for over 200 yards and ran for another 100. He accumulated over 300 total yards of offense, and outperformed QB Trevor Lawrence in his home stadium.

So just think about that, you literally criticized QB Daniel Jones' performance after he won "NFC offensive player of the week", just let that sink in for a bit.

As far as his performance against the Ravens, this is what we call cherry picking. I noticed you have conveniently left out the rest of his stats, so let me refresh you on them.

He completed 70% of his passes, he threw 2 TD's and 0 Int. He posted a 112.0 RTG and a 73.9 QBR, and outperformed QB Lamar Jackson and beat him.

His performance against Green Bay was just as good, as he and the Giants beat Aaron Rodgers in London. The stats are right there for anyone to see.

Did you read what I wrote? You took it as a criticism that I said he didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes but it was factual. You can't say Jones won us a game when he's the quarterback and didn't even throw a pass in the final quarter, even when we were down.

I could careless about NFC player of the week, that'd be like Evan Neal getting a participation trophy, who cares.

What I do care about is Jones throwing down the field, you know being a quarterback. Jones gets one more year to show us in year 6 that he can actually throw down the field in "volume" because to this point he hasn't.

I know you are going to bring up him having the best deep ball average as a rookie etc but it is misleading because he went deep significantly less than other Qbs. Infact his deep balls have almost gone down every season he's played as he's regressing whether that be from the oline or his mental makeup.

He likely needs this to keep his job

100 more 1st downs than his avg
60+ 20 yard throws
15+ 40 yard throws
4,000+ yards
20+ Tds

Quote from: BluesCruz on June 09, 2024, 12:38:55 PMIts extremely concerning to hear this new DC likes to rush only 4

Against a top rated QB we will be shredded.  Not only that, dropping 7 back leaves us open to a team running it down our throats

Who picked this guy anyway

You do realize the best defense in the league last season Baltimore, only sent 4 rushers all season. The Giants last year were significantly better on defense when they sent 3 or 4 guys instead of 5+.

So why are you not a fan of 4 rushers?

Do we get a comp pick for retiring players? That's the real question currently lol.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 08, 2024, 09:52:43 PMYour entitled to your opinion, but 2022 wasn't as easy as you may think.

In 2022 Daniel Jones and the Giants beat:

A) Jaguars with QB Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville 23-17
B) Ravens with QB Lamar Jackson 24-20
C) Packers with QB Aaron Rodgers 27-22
D) Panthers with QB Baker Mayfield 19-16
E) Vikings with QB Kirk Cousins 31-24 (Playoff win)

Four out of five of those QB's in 2022 were top fifteen, and Daniel Jones and the Giants beat them, all of them.

A) Jones didn't throw a pass the last 16 minutes of that game even when we were behind so not sure I'd use that as an example of something Jones did.

B) The difference played exceptional causing Jackson to make a mistake which won us that game. Specifically Thibs and Love. Jones has 173 yards, it was very much a running and defensive game.

C) Again came down to the defense getting multiple stops. Jones didn't go out and win it as much as the defense held GB off at the end.

D) The panthers went 7-10 in 2022 and Jones went for 176 in the game so I'm not sure why it is on the list but ok.

E) The Vikings were historically bad on defense, and Jones did play well. That's the problem though, you can't judge an entire season on 1 game and beating the worst defense in the league isn't the accolade you think it is.

The Giants had a cupcake schedule and as a result lost to every single playoff worthy team that year. Seattle, Detroit, Dallas, Philadelphia etc. It's ok if you think Jones' 170 yards a game passing was the winning factor, but for most it was the defense and running game.

For us to win this year and be in the playoffs Jones will have to actually throw down field, something he's refused to do in the past several seasons. You cant blame that on coaching or the line as Devito doubled him in downfield throws, and Tyrod tripled him in downfield throws.  Jones actually threw deep more on average in 2023 than he did in 2022 which is scary to think about but it has to change.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on June 07, 2024, 10:17:28 PMHi GMO,

I was curious, may I ask why do you say they don't have a playoff QB?

He says that because a majority of the fan base has come to the realization that Jones isn't a top 15 Qb and that 2022 was largely a mirage of good defense with a potent run game, and luck with an easy schedule.

Yes Jones beat a bad Vikings team, but then got smashed the following week vs an actual playoff worthy team.

Quote from: kingm56 on June 07, 2024, 11:49:26 AMThere's a difference between making the playoffs and being considered a "playoff team." While it's possible for the Giants to accomplish the former, they're not close to the latter. Considering the current playoff format, 14 of 32 (44%) teams make the playoffs; by definition, slightly above average teams have a chance to compete for a championship. In today's NFL, a very average team could make the playoffs if they play in a weak division and get a few lucky breaks, similar to our 2022 Giants.  However, did anyone believe that team had a chance to compete with the actual playoff teams (e.g. Phili, KC, Buff, etc)? In 2023, the same was true for the Bucs, Browns, Texan, and Steelers; each team made the playoffs, but lacked the firepower to actually beat the NFL elites.

The same paradigm exist today; while the Giants have improved their overall talent, they still lack the firepower to compete with NFL's perennial playoff teams. They're getting closer; however, a few key components still need to be upgraded.  I like the direction we're going though!

I still think we are a year and a half out from truly being competitive weekly with anyone.

We were out of money this time last year but when we do have money, like we did before 2022, Schoen did a great job churning the bottom of the roster. Finding guys like McCloud, Pinnock, Hodgins, and Phillips. Let's just let him continue to do that, acquire cheap talent with huge upsides that teams accidentally let go.

I know a lot of people think Dak is overrated but he would transform this offense into a monster if he was on this team with these weapons.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on June 06, 2024, 03:46:45 PMConsidering the Giants have 3 guys on the list who aren't with them anymore, it validates the point that the problem has been the Giants, not the players.

This. There are so many examples of guys being "trash" or not good Olinemen just to leave and play great elsewhere. Even a few udfa Olinemen that are playing great, it's wild.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-safety-rankings-top-32-2024-nfl-season

List is really interesting considering the 3 former Giants that are on it. Two of which walked on cheap deals and the other was one of the top graded safeties in the league.

No current Giant is on the list.

It is voluntary for a reason.

There is no way anyone could predict he would retire. Him on the field easily value that of a 3rd round pick.

I'm sorry but Schoen can't be these guys daddy and talk them into playing. It is not on him. He took a swing that was universally praised and I'd rather him keep taking swings than to be conservative and do nothing.

When you draft the two best corners in the draft it makes sense.