Big Blue Huddle

I had Singletary as the 15th best back in football last year. The Houston line was a mess most of the year before getting it together at the end and he still produced.

Barkleys analytics have been a dumpster fire the past few years, so I'm not sure how pff ignored that but it is what it is.

Quote from: BluesCruz on Today at 08:00:58 AMI hope so
The other two have issues with Decision making and injuries

Whatever will be will be

I don't think Tommy got a fair shot

He was a winner
Got targeted and seemed lost the next game.  Might have had a concussion

Tyrod could wing it but he too has decision issues and injuries record

Devito got more of a chance that 99% of UDFA guys so he should feel lucky.

Tyrod was significantly better than Devito and it wasn't close. It is why Devito slid to the bench the moment Tyrod came back.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 19, 2024, 08:19:53 PMSXD,

I can get on board with the idea that if he throws for about 4k yards, at least 25 TDs, about 10 picks, a rating in the mid 90s, AND the team makes the playoffs, then he has a pretty good shot of being brought back on this contract.

Those are A LOT of ifs though. First off, those are make believe numbers. Starting with the team itself. The Giants won 6 games last year, and their over/under is 6.5 this year. To win something like 10 or 11 is an extremely optimistic projection.

Secondly, that projection on Jones is incredibly optimistic. He has never come close to 4,000 passing yards, and last year he was absolutely awful, AND he just lost his best offensive player he had last year.

Do I think he is actually as bad as he was last year? No, I do not. But 4,000/25/10 is not something we have seen him do to this point and it's a long, long way from what he showed on the field last year. And on top of that, he's coming off an ACL.

Time will tell. It's great to be optimistic. Nothing would make me happier this fall than if Jones were suddenly, out of the blue, a very good QB despite never having been that in five years in the NFL or in college.

It would make my fall if it happens. I hope it does. But until I see it, I am not expecting it.

Total yards leaders 2023:

Josh Allen 4,830
Dak Prescott
Tua Tugaviloa
Jared Goff
Patrick Mahomes
Lamar Jackson 4,499

I think anyone predicting Jones to be in the top 5 or top 10 yardage wise in the NFL didn't watch the Giants the past two seasons. I mean that's a Wild statement no matter what side of the coin you fall on.

As far as numbers I think EPA and BTTR are metrics we significantly need to improve on at least for our team and what Daboll wants to do. You always see Allen at the top of these two lists, Allen was actually only beaten in BTTR by Tyrod Taylor 8.9%, Stafford 6.3% and Allen 6.2%. For reference Jones hasn't gotten above 2.5% in the past 3 years. He was 39th out of 41 qbs, which was actually better than his 2022 output.

Out of 33 Qbs since 2019 that have registered 1200 snaps Jones ranks 32nd in EPA/Play.

Daniel Jones 2023 ranks:
#30 in EPA/att (-0.24)
 #30 in YPA (6.0)
#28 in pass success rate (38%)
 #32 in TD rate (1.8%)
#33 in TD:INT ratio (2:4)
#31 in explosive pass rate (11%)

We have by far the worst Qb situation in the NFC and I don't know that it is close. I would say the NFL, but the Broncos likely have us beat unless Bo Nix shows something this season and gives them hope.

I would be fascinated to hear @kingm56 and your answer to if there is a Qb group currently that you wouldn't take over Jones/Lock in the NFL currently outside The Broncos with Stidham/Nix?

Quote from: Philosophers on June 19, 2024, 06:30:34 PMTwo things have to happen with our pass catchers assuming Nabers is the real deal day 1.

1) Hyatt needs to complete his development now so the Giants can potentially send 2 WRs on split deeper routes to challenge safety coverage.

2) Theo Johnson needs to become a legit middle field threat to force safeties to choose their coverage.

If OL protects, I'd love to see this develop.

I think Theo takes over for Bellinger rather quickly. If Daboll was even remotely impressed with Bellinger we wouldn't have brought in Waller, 2 blocking TEs, or Theo.

Quote from: kingm56 on June 19, 2024, 01:44:34 PMJess, the data doesn't support that narrative; specifically, elite WRs can be productive independent of QB play.  Using Terry McLaurin as an example, he has 5 straight 1,000+ yard/70 catch seasons, despite playing with the following QBs:

* 2019: Case Keenum, Dwayne Haskins, and Colt McCoy
* 2020: Alex Smith, Dwayne Haskins, and Kyle Allen
* 2021: Taylor Heinicke, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Garrett Gilbert
* 2022: Taylor Heinicke, Sam Howell, and Carson Wentz
* 2023: Sam Howell, Jacoby Brissett, and Jake Fromm

That's as bad as it gets; yet, he still produced.  Justin Jefferson is another good example; despite playing with 3rd string QBs, he still produced.  In short, similar to how a QB can be successful without good WRs, the latter can also be successful without the former.  Now, if each is good, they will both benefit. As this relates to WDR, I don't believe it's the QB holding him back; his injuries are probably the primary reason he's yet to shine.

I was more referring to the Qb in how they throw downfield. Hyatt becomes a waste if we can't go deep regularly whereas Robinson likely thrives with a qb that throws short a lot etc. The Qb has an affect on how they get the ball and I think that matters for our guys more so than a your typical qb/wr.

Also if you added up those Qbs production you listed for each season it likely mirrors our own production if not better if that says something.

Jefferson did have a career low this past season with the 3rd string qbs but I completely get your point.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 19, 2024, 01:30:15 PMI believe the only reason the Giants would keep 3 QBs on the 53-man roster is if they believe the QB on the PS would be poached by another team.

I agree 100%, I just don't think devito is any better than any other PS qb we could poach if he got snatched.

As a footnote
Teams that have a Qb on the practice squad that can be promoted as a 3rd Qb for every game making the need to keep 3 Qbs unnecessary.

Also there can be 17 players on the practice squad instead of 16 if that player is an international one, of which our backup kicker is currently.

Quote from: kingm56 on June 19, 2024, 12:32:22 PMI don't see top 10, but they do have the potential to be good.  It all comes down to Nabers.  Can he be as good as CeeDee? If he is, we can talk above top 10. 

Btw, I think Terry M maybe the most underrated wr in the entire NFL.  For 5 years, he's been paired with below average QBs. Yet, all he does is produce 1K+ yard years.

There is a lot of smoke around Washington trading for Brandon Aiyuk as him and Daniels are best friends from their time at Arizona St and in a hold out with the 49ers.

It eventually comes down to who's getting the wrs the ball. I think WDR could be elite, and Hyatt eventually could turn into a poor mans Calvin Ridley. Really just hinges on what we have in Nabers and who is getting them the ball.

I just want the young guys to get as many reps as humanly possible this season. I want as many reps of WDR, Nabers, Hyatt, Theo Johnson, and Tyrone Tracey on the field as they can handle. They are the future, so let's see what they have.

Saw Nabers called out Trevon Diggs as the guy he wants to smoke regularly and Diggs replied that the cowboys have been putting the belt to the Giants for years now.

Think he's purely a camp body, he didn't even start for his own team at East Tennessee.

Quote from: nb587 on June 17, 2024, 09:31:43 AMWith Dex and Burns, I don't think Thibs will see the double teaming he saw last year. Should help his production. 

And having the 2nd best MLB in the NFL near him in this alignment should hide some of the run defending deficiencies.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 17, 2024, 05:19:10 PMThat's an excellent breakdown.  The only thing I am not sure of is if NYG sees Simmons as an edge rusher

I don't think he is either but he's definitely not a Mike either in my opinion with this defense. So until we see how they will deploy him, I put him as a pass rush specialist on 3rd downs or a Weak side backer in 4/3 sets.

Bricillo canned the 1st round pick center/guard from Alabama by the Raiders in year 2 I believe. So if it's not there he won't play them, or at least should be given the benefit.

QB- Jones Lock
RB- Singletary, Tracey, Corbin
WR- Nabers, WDR, Hyatt, McKenzie, Slayton, Gunner, Robinson
TE- Bellinger, Johnson, Manhertz
OL- Thomas, Eleumenor, Schmitz, Runyan, Neal, Ezeudu, Stinnie, TBD

DLìne- Lawrence, Riley, Nunez Roches, Chatman, Phillips, TBD
Edge- Thibs, Burns, Ojulari, Simmons
Mike- Okereke, McFadden, Muasau, Adams
CB- Flott, Banks, McCloud, Henderson, Phillips, Hawkins
Safety- Pinnock, Nubin, Belton, Owens, Johnson

Gillian
Gano
Kreiter

1 UDFA

Beavers,  Aaron Robinson, Gray, Basham, Davidson left off

BFW, Hodgins, Jalen Mills, Miller for PS

If you watched last night, Blood and cheese made their debut at the end of the episode. If you have time, and know what happens at the end of episode 1 you should look on YouTube to see how it unfolds in the books. It is even more diabolical.