Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: AP44 on December 22, 2022, 06:04:13 PMIf you want to argue that Jones isn't the long term answer - that's fine.

But to say we have a WR group that could produce above average result for any QB is just remarkable to me. They are a very bad unit.

I know we agree to disagree on this but outside of lacking a true #1 Playmaking WR I don't believe this unit is that bad.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 22, 2022, 06:21:24 PMThanks for sharing.

Obviously this guy is not a Daniel Jones fan, so I'm sure there will be some members here who won't like this video and will dismiss everything he has to say out of hand. I think he makes some valid points though, particularly about some of the fan base being more accepting of mediocrity than they were a decade ago.

The point that he brought up about how we as Giants fans would look at Daniel Jones if he was the QB of another team and how it would be completely different is a really good one.  Sometimes you have to separate your fandom from these situations if you truly want to be honest.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 22, 2022, 05:15:30 PMWe are having the same discussion because the Oline pass blocking has seriously declined since last year and the WRs have gone backwards since last year.  There is a limit to how much coaching can affect units that have a serious lack of quality.

Personnel has changed on both the WR and O-Line units.  Play caller has also changed.......

I wonder what hasn't changed? 

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 22, 2022, 05:17:33 PMPhil Simms, Rich Gannon, David Tyree, Lawrence Tynes, Tiki Barber, and the majority of the Giants beat reporters.

What do they all have in common?

They all have recently said they believe that Jones will be back with the Giants next season.

All of which have no connection to the new Giants regime.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 22, 2022, 04:46:17 PMHe's 16th in passing yards and 13th in passing and rushing yards combined.

Ok, so again middle of the road QB.  Which is fine.  It's not a $25-$30+ AAV QB.

Quote from: AP44 on December 22, 2022, 05:06:23 PMAre we really gonna say the Giants don't have one of the worst WR corps in the NFL? I mean can we at least be objective?

If you want to argue Ravens - fine but they have andrews at least. There's really not a group other than them that are as bad as ours.

What we do know that with this QB, OL and WR's the Giants have one of the least productive passing offenses in football.  I don't think adding a #1 Playmaking WR will make as big of a difference as others do.  For me the screaming about the WR's is what the fire Jason Garrett upgrade the offensive line was a year ago.  Yet here we are having a similar discussion.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 22, 2022, 02:16:42 PMYou have to add in his rushing yards and TD's and 1st downs running. He may wind up with near 4000 yards total. As of now he only has 4 Interceptions and has cut down considerably in turnovers. So Rushing and YAC is a career high. 3300 passing and that's also a CH. 66% completion % and that's a CH. QR 90.5 and QBR 57.1 and those are CH's.

You'd have to do that with every QB in the league and when you do that with the number of athletic QBs in the league I don't think it helps Jones in that regard with where he ranks when you combine the passing and rushing yards for QBs.  I could be wrong but don't think it does.

Quote from: AP44 on December 22, 2022, 02:41:08 PMWould we rather throw the ball all over the field to one of the worst receiving corps in the league just so we can have higher passing stats? Or have a game plan that gives us the best opportunity to win? Last time I checked we are 8-5-1. So do stats really matter?

The idea that it's the worst receiving corps in the league is an opinion.  We don't know exactly why the Giants aren't throwing it all over the field.  It could be Jones, the O-Line, Receivers or a combination of all three.

Whatever the case Jones has proven to be an extremely efficient game manager.  And as you pointed out it's helped the Giants get to being 8-5-1.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on December 22, 2022, 09:47:46 AMMurray is more dynamic on the ground as well. But he has some challenges with his size too

With that said I wouldn't pay him either. One advantage DJ there is Kyler is a diva and headache.

Kyler is a better player. But neither are a guy I would pay big money. Saying DJ is a better leader and tougher isnt saying much when compared to a whiny crybaby like Murray.

His ACL may bring down his explosiveness too, which will impact his game pretty bad potentially.

What I will say, is as much as I don't like Murray, if over the same span, DJs stats looked more like Kylers, I would be much more in favor of keeping him around.

I think Jones has the longer NFL career than Murray despite Murray being more talented.  Jones being a hard working good guy who has shown he can be an efficient game manager will last longer in the NFL.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on December 21, 2022, 08:50:01 PMIf you feel it was a bad pass, or a bad catch or maybe even both, you are entitled to your opinion, I am just sharing the pics for you to make your own call.
 

Like the Slayton play in the first Washington game I think this one was on both players.  Problem for me is that we are seeing too many of these with the Giants and it's not just one receiver it's multiple receivers.  It shows the argument can be made that Jones hasn't elevated those around him just as much as they haven't elevated him.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 21, 2022, 04:15:14 PM22-30 mill a year on avg yikes

Yeah I am passing if that's the cost even on a 2 year deal.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on December 21, 2022, 05:02:41 PMWhen you use Jones's individual ranking in total yards then imply its out of 32, you're not making an apples-to-apples comparison. In a 32-team league, the Giants passing offense ranks 28th in yards-per-game and 27th in yards-per-attempt. If you look at Jones's yards-per-attempt for qualified passers this season, he's 27th as well (so right in line with the team rankings). Jones is decidedly not middle-of-the-pack in this regard. Doesn't change your arguments about the quality of the offense, but it's categorically incorrect to imply that the passing production of Jones has been anything but well below-average this season.

Exactly how I look at it.

Quote from: AP44 on December 21, 2022, 01:37:31 PMOnce again - the failure to acknowledge supporting casts and DJ's rushing numbers is not being transparent about whats going on with the QB position.

There is no doubt that Jones is one of the best rushing QB's in the league.  And even factoring in his supporting cast I still don't believe he'll ever be an elite QB.  If he was putting up average middle of the road passing numbers with this then I'd agree about that elite potential.

Agree to disagree on this.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 21, 2022, 10:13:44 AMJust goes to show the best in each draft doesn't = success!

We can do worse! 

Is this upcoming draft comparable better or worse than the draft above??

The 2017 draft was thought to be a weak draft for QB's yet Mahomes went 10th and Watson went 12th.  You never know and there isn't an exact science to it.  You would just have to hope that if this Giants regime does go QB in the 1st round of the 2023 draft that they end up with the right guy.

Hope they're doing well

Quote from: todge on December 20, 2022, 09:59:12 PMWith the increase in the salary cap - we are looking at a $30M per year QB salary. Perhaps DJ will take less money so the Giants can fit others into the Cap. Let's hope Abrams can weave his magic.


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That depends if Abrams is retained in his position after being shifted out of the role he had in 2021.  Schoen and Brown may want to bring in someone else to manage the cap.

Quote from: todge on December 20, 2022, 10:03:06 PMWell put. I am also reluctant to try the Draft to get your QB. Look no further than the Jets who tried to bench the 2nd pick in the Draft. Schoen knows full well that putting your eggs in the Draft for your QB is a major gamble.


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He does.  He came from an organization that traded up to draft their QB in 2018 which has worked out pretty well for that team.

Quote from: AP44 on December 20, 2022, 05:57:34 PMNo worries. I just don't see why posters want to downgrade at QB. I am at no liberty of giving Jones a 4-5 year deal. But a two year deal still lets you draft a qb and still build the team.

I don't think it's that anyone wants to downgrade but rather you disagreeing with others on Daniel Jones being better/worse than others.

Quote from: AP44 on December 20, 2022, 05:38:19 PMYes I'd take Jones at somewhere around 25 million over those guys but nothing more than 2 years.

Agree to disagree.  Appreciate the response.

Quote from: AP44 on December 20, 2022, 04:52:37 PMJimmy G coming off major injury and is 32. No

Mike white has 1 good and has superior weapons and still struggles.

Brisset has never won anywhere he went and again - superior weapons

Mayfield - epitome of average and a locker room cancer

Rush sucks.

Heinicke? No thanks. Again - plays with superior weapons.

None of these guys are better than Jones so taking a step backwards makes no sense.

If it came down to either those guys or giving Jones a contract that paid him $25-$30+ million AAV would you do it?  Obviously a hypothetical