Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 04, 2024, 03:57:35 PMI'm afraid this may be true. I have no doubt the Giants prefer to upgrade the QB position. I'm not convinced they will make a change if it isn't for a college prospect they are convinced will be a star.

drafting a QB to draft a QB is not a good idea.  A team needs to be pretty sure they are drafting their franchise QB when they pull the trigger (and even that doesn't ensure success)

With that said, it can go either way. I take a pretty neutral stance on that type of stuff.

They have Nabers, an improving OL, and a stud in Tracy, a new QB has stuff to work with, and they arent going to have a long enough leash for 2026 i doubt

So I just hope they strike gold, whoever it is. But, it has to be someone they genuine like and believe in, with conviction, not just a willy nilly selection forcing a square peg in a round hole.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 04, 2024, 04:00:28 PMdrafting a QB to draft a QB is not a good idea.  A team needs to be pretty sure they are drafting their franchise QB when they pull the trigger (and even that doesn't ensure success)

This I agree with 100%

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 04, 2024, 03:47:33 PMThe quarterbacks in this draft are not in last year's class. There is no Calib or Daniels in this year's draft class.  The QBs in this draft are more like the QB prospects available to the Giants when it was their turn to draft and they passed on all of them.

Rich,

I understand your position.

I however do care quite a bit if he's back or not, because the financial implications of that are very significant. If he comes back, it's another year of having a QB who makes way more than he is worth, which hamstrings us from investing in additional talent. Replacing him with either a much cheaper placeholder veteran or a player on a rookie contract will unlock additional cap room that can be deployed elsewhere on the roster. To me, that's a very important part of all this.

It's not just that I want to get a QB other than Jones (which I definitely do). I also want to stop vastly overpaying the QB position, which we currently are.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 04, 2024, 03:28:07 PMA practice squad left tackle. Yes, he shouldn't be on the team, let alone starting. His poor play doesn't make the QBs poor decision making any less egregious. Daniel Jones can't be trusted with the football in his hands.

No but it starts with the O line, he is in the NFL and he's getting paid.

Do you agree that he allowed a free rusher to come right on through to hit Daniel Jones's blind side?

Do you agree that he failed to do his job? And if he did his job Daniel wouldn't have fumbled?

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 04, 2024, 03:32:38 PMIt's more than dishonesty at this point. It's an obsession.

May I ask could not the obsession be said about those who want Daniel gone, and do everything in their power to nullify or downgrade the good that he does?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 04, 2024, 02:43:35 PMNone of this will matter in 3 months, Jones won't be here and you'll have to find another singular Giant player to hyper focus on.

May I ask didn't you say the same thing before the draft that the Giants would be moving on from Daniel?

And how did that turn out?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 04, 2024, 04:27:29 PMNo but it starts with the O line, he is in the NFL and he's getting paid.

Do you agree that he allowed a free rusher to come right on through to hit Daniel Jones's blind side?

Do you agree that he failed to do his job? And if he did his job Daniel wouldn't have fumbled?

You don't consider QB the most important position in football?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 04, 2024, 04:32:39 PMMay I ask could not the obsession be said about those who want Daniel gone, and do everything in their power to nullify or downgrade the good that he does?

It isn't an obsession, we have all admitted there are other areas of the team we all feel are also needing improvement, you just choose to hyperfixate on Jones and don't see those posts.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 04, 2024, 04:34:32 PMMay I ask didn't you say the same thing before the draft that the Giants would be moving on from Daniel?

And how did that turn out?

It turned out with them trying to trade up and move on. If they believed in DJ, they would not have attempted it.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 04, 2024, 04:34:32 PMMay I ask didn't you say the same thing before the draft that the Giants would be moving on from Daniel?

And how did that turn out?

Huh? They tried to or did you just forget that along with stats from certain games? They tried to sell the farm for Maye knowing Jones wasn't the future. They tried like hell to retain Tyrod and then paid 5 million for a pedestrian all because they know Jones isn't the answer. But I guess if you ignore all of that then sure.

Just to clarify I never said Jones wouldn't be on the roster this year, everyone and their mom knew he would be because of the albatross of a contract this year. Most including myself thought we would grab a qb if one fell ala daniels or maye. Context is everything that you have a tendency to ignore. Like leaving a game off to pat Jones' stats etc.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 04, 2024, 04:27:29 PMNo but it starts with the O line, he is in the NFL and he's getting paid.

Do you agree that he allowed a free rusher to come right on through to hit Daniel Jones's blind side?

Do you agree that he failed to do his job? And if he did his job Daniel wouldn't have fumbled?

Are you asking me if I think the OLT should have blocked his man? Is that a serious question or are you trying to be condescending? The OLT didn't block his man because he's a washed up right tackle who has no business playing left tackle. In the same way Daniel Jones has no business starting at QB in the NFL. Jones saw the rusher and instead of eating the ball he made a feeble attempt at the kind of play Pat Mahomes does on a routine basis. The difference is Mahomes has the talent to make those plays and Daniel Jones is a special needs QB who cannot be trusted with the ball.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 04, 2024, 04:32:39 PMMay I ask could not the obsession be said about those who want Daniel gone, and do everything in their power to nullify or downgrade the good that he does?

The difference is people who put the team first are going to be more critical of Daniel Jones. Those who put Jones ahead of the team are willing to throw anyone and everyone under the bus to protect an incompetent QB.

A reasonable person who loves Daniel Jones would say "I love this QB but it isn't working out here. Time for a fresh start for both sides."

I seriously don't know how this is still a conversation.

Weapons check
Line check
Decent defense check

Jones still wafting balls check
Jones throwing for sad totals check
Jones leading league in 1 read throws check
 Jones making rookie mistakes after a half decade + in the league check

Just think what this offense could have looked like with tyrod this season while we waited for a new heir. I think you poll who you would rather have at qb this season and most would choose tyrod.

Anyways no point in continuing to discuss a guy that will most certainly not be here if schoen and Daboll are still here.

The thing is, Jones is a problem, but he is not the problems.  There is no the problem.  There are plenty of problems to go around.  And if they replace Jones all those other problems will remain. 

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 04, 2024, 06:25:49 PMThe thing is, Jones is a problem, but he is not the problems.  There is no the problem.  There are plenty of problems to go around.  And if they replace Jones all those other problems will remain. 

I agree that Jones is A problem, not THE problem.

But I would follow by stating that he is A BIG problem, if for no other reason than that he is paid vastly more than any other player on the team, and he isn't even close to being the best player. In fact he's not even a top five player on this team, and this is a very bad team.

So I fully agree that he is not the only problem. I don't think there is a single poster here who believes that. In any event, I certainly don't think that, and I never did. But I think it's fair to say that, while by no means the only problem on this team, he is a big one.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 04, 2024, 02:27:03 PMIt's telling that no one even mentioned the blown block that caused the fumble

Strategic Initiative #1: "FIX THE G-DAMNED OFFENSIVE LINE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!" 

We were fooled into thinking it was fixed; it was the Giants who put the fix on us! New year, new coach, same ol' Giants, same ol' result.

But they had us fooled for a while, didn't they?

Nothing that couldn't be solved with the best Left Offensive Tackle in the nation selected with that high draft choice next April. I don't put this on Bricillo as he inherited a broken Andrew Thomas and was forced to deal with the Neal soap opera which has yielded a roster spot that has contributed absolutely NOTHING this season. It's time to rework Thomas' contract, now that he has a salvage title next to his name, or cut him altogether. Jettison the dead weight from roster spots that are not contributing anything. Evaluate who to keep and who not to keep from what's left from the current line, which I believe a few should be allowed to continue on.

But make no mistake. Going into this season, Daniel Jones wasn't a strategic focus since we knew what the Giants had with him. The key was fixing the line in front for him to give him the best opportunity to see the field and not have to rush his throws every play with a defender in his face or on his blind side about to level him.

Nine games in, Strategic Initiative #1 Rating: RED. BLOODY RED

Guess what? Forget the QB for a second. It doesn't matter who is back there right now. Any improvements made in 2024 were tenuous at best and now the system is no longer working despite gains made in the running game.

Two tackles and at least one guard in the draft. Sign more depth in free agency. Protect your QB, whomever it is, at all costs. Even if it means trading some star power on defense away for additional picks, the #1 priority going into next year must be to:

"FIX the damned Offensive Line and REINFORCE it!!!"

This will be 2025's #1 Strategic Initiative. You can have your new QB as #2. But it all starts up front.

The other element, which was barely mentioned yesterday, was that Daboll was a day late and a dollar short in activating their Irish kicker from Rutgers, Jude McAtamney, to kick field goals yesterday while Joseph handled kickoffs until he injured his abdomen yesterday (NOTE: the Sardine Can Turfmonster claims yet another kicker!). But it was good to see the young lad out there, albeit a tad nervous as he knocked through his first points as a New York Football Giant and, in the process, became the first Irish-born player to score for the Giants in their 100-year history, I believe, and the first Irish kicker to score points in the NFL since Neil O'Donoghue kicked for the Cardinals in 1985! With Gano and Gillan still out, it appears the Giants will need to go in a new direction as far as their punter, and possibly their kicker, is concerned. If McAtamney can settle into the kicking role well enough, he might make a case for auditioning for next season. Haack, on the other hand, has had a few good punts but also some bad shanks to include one or two from yesterday's action. I still believe the Giants missed the opportunity to add a great punter in former Rutgers' punter, and McAtamney's former holder, Adam Korsak, who went on to punt in the CFL and also coach/mentor a new Aussie Rules Football-turned punter at Rutgers this season. In my opinion, reuniting McAtamney with Korsak as the Giants' specialists in 2025 could yield amazing results and should be strongly considered by Schoen if he's still around next year.

The emergent events surrounding Banks at CB are especially concerning and another CB going wrong for the Giants is the last thing they need. This one deserves close watching and, if the falling out turns into demands to be traded in the off-season, it will be time to consider another higher draft choice for CB. His play yesterday was especially concerning on that TD pass where he did not turn his head to look at the ball. It was just a bizarre coverage on his part and something just wasn't right with him on that play. Again, it deserves close watching because something is very wrong there.

It's too bad that the weaknesses and underlying issues with this team are now finally starting to surface as the good teams start picking up their game and the Giants demonstrate they simply are not able to stand toe-to-toe with their opposition anymore. It doesn't really matter why anymore. The fact is that they do not have the horses to go a full 60 minutes against any club now and, even when they try to dominate time of possession, they become their own worst enemy and self-destruct.

The truth is this regime has done some good things but they've also done some things to set themselves back. Off-hand, I'd say they are roughly 50-50, give or take. Granted, the first two years involved cleaning out rot from a decade of mismanagement which is neither easy nor pretty. I believe that is one of the good things Schoen and company have accomplished. They were handed a salary cap nightmare and have, for the most part, cleaned it up to the point where it is far more manageable now than it has been in a long time. That, in and of itself, should make it easier to manage the cap and be able to forecast future moves and anticipate opportunities they want to get involved in as far as player acquisition. Progress in that area has been slower than expected but, when you lay everything out, there should be enough data/information to get a good handle on where this thing is going and what needs to be done to steer it into alignment with the organization's strategic imperatives which support the strategy with which they will accomplish their over-arching mission statement.

The only question left will be whether Mara and Tisch believe Schoen is still the man to execute those imperatives and drive the Operations organization to the desired results. We won't know that until season's end.

But, make no mistake, the Giants have far more problems than just the QB situation. From the top-down, they truly are at the crossroads.

Peace!