Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on January 02, 2025, 10:36:42 AMTo me, if you are correct, then why the contract to Jones? He didn't stand up to Mara's meddling in the biggest decision of his early tenure. And that has almost cost him his job. But does Mara meddle in the draft picks that have been C minus at best?

I think that was a compromise.  He could have saddled this team with Jones for 4 years if he really believed in the guy.  Mara probably wouldn't sign off on getting rid of him after a playoff season especially when he looked so good vs the Vikings pitiful defense in that playoff game.  But Schoen knew this was a mistake so he compromised by structuring the deal in a way that they could (and likely would) be out after 2 years.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 02, 2025, 10:05:31 AMI have resigned myself to the reality that I am a fan of a team that will be bad to mediocre for the foreseeable future.

cool

Quote from: MrGap92 on January 02, 2025, 08:39:40 AMGreat News

This is "Great News" for Philadelphia, Dallas and Washington.

Quote from: coggs on January 02, 2025, 10:38:08 AMFasell was the coach for 7 years.  Reeves for 4.   People were ready to run Coughlin out of town after the 2nd year.
And, if they don't give up the farm to move up will you find something else to complain about?

Staying the course ended up being a very wise decision too

Quote from: Giantleap56 on January 02, 2025, 10:41:03 AMThis is "Great News" for Philadelphia, Dallas and Washington.

The Giants will be bad again next year regardless of who is coach and GM. But all this does is postpone the changes for another year. Unless they find a Jayden Daniels or Stroud who can totally turn it around next year, and they won't in this year's draft, nor will a bridge like Darnold, Fields or someone else be significant enough to garner many wins, they will be bottom dwellers once more. All those tough home games next year will be full with opposing team fans. Mara's gonna love that.

Quote from: katkavage on January 02, 2025, 10:36:42 AMTo me, if you are correct, then why the contract to Jones? He didn't stand up to Mara's meddling in the biggest decision of his early tenure. And that has almost cost him his job. But does Mara meddle in the draft picks that have been C minus at best?

Q: Why the contract to Jones?
A: They just won their first playoff game since their last SB in 2012. Ten years. If you were in Schoen's position (firs time rookie GM), what would you tell your boss, who has publicly supported Jones and lamented all they have done to ruin the kid, that would convince him to dump Jones?

Quote from: T200 on January 02, 2025, 10:47:28 AMQ: Why the contract to Jones?
A: They just won their first playoff game since their last SB in 2012. Ten years. If you were in Schoen's position (firs time rookie GM), what would you tell your boss, who has publicly supported Jones and lamented all they have done to ruin the kid, that would convince him to dump Jones?

I'd tell him I think it's a mistake to sign him. They won because of the running back and circumstance. We are happy with the season we had, but we are not fooled that the team still needs much work for it's long term success. My coach, who we hired because he knows QB play, says he needs a QB he can really develop. We just don't see that in Jones despite the good game managing year he had. We like the kid, but it's not the right move for the long term future of the team. You hired me to make these tough evaluations and decisions. This is mine. If we are going to work together in the future you have to trust me on all the player personnel decisions.

Quote from: MrGap92 on January 02, 2025, 10:35:36 AMYou have your opinion, I disagree with it, to each their own.

I can ask if you saw the many things I have seen the other way, but we have all done this ad nauseum, I don't have the energy to play this agenda tug of war anymore.

I understand, you are not totally in the minority as there are others who agree with you .  I just really wanted to know why you thought it was ," Great News " that there is a possibility that Schoen and Daboll might be retained .

Quote from: T200 on January 02, 2025, 10:47:28 AMQ: Why the contract to Jones?
A: They just won their first playoff game since their last SB in 2012. Ten years. If you were in Schoen's position (firs time rookie GM), what would you tell your boss, who has publicly supported Jones and lamented all they have done to ruin the kid, that would convince him to dump Jones?

Seriously.  Some of these people are acting like what we saw out of Jones in 2022 was what we saw this year.  When Schoen first got here he decided to not exercise the 5th year option.  Immediately everyone said they will be screwed if he has a good year this year (2022) and he has to pay him more for 2023.  The cap for 2023 was a mess so they could not franchise him.  We knew as soon as the contract was signed, well those of us who understand Math knew, it was a 2 year deal with 2 one year options based on how the deal was structured.  Last year, the OLine was historically bad and there was not a QB in the league that would have been successful here.  This year, Jones was historically bad and they let him go.  They werent picking high enough in 2023 to draft a QB.  The FA's avaialble at the time would have been seen as a downgrade from what we saw out of Jones in 2022 and there was no guarantee any of them would have signed here.  Could anyone imagine the backlash if they gave Baker Mayfield a 4 year deal for even half the money they gave Jones?  Cut all the money in Jones deal in half, guaranteed and non-guaranteed money. Keep the 4 years and almost everyone on here and in giants internet land would have been going apeshit.  And, not in a good way,

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 02, 2025, 10:52:59 AMI understand, you are not totally in the minority as there are others who agree with you .  I just really wanted to know why you thought it was ," Great News " that there is a possibility that Schoen and Daboll might be retained .

In short, I think they have been severely handicapped by Daniel Jones, in more ways than one. I think Dabolls playcalling and some of the other skill players on this team are better than their stats because of who has been throwing to them. I also think the team has been hurt by injuries yet again, and should seriously consider letting Barnes retire and revamping that medical staff from the top down and then some. This is a serious problem the organization has with injuries.

They still have work to do, but if we can give Jones 6 years, we can give them a 4th.

I also feel like Schoen's first draft gets too much flak, considering his limited time and not having his people fully in place yet. Despite that, that draft was a portion of a team that made the playoffs.

A QB won't fix everything, but if they hit, then having one will make them a lot more respectable and will lessen other needs. The game from IND is a sample of some of what we can see more regularly with having competent QB play more consistently. They still need a RG, Swing, DT and CB, and overall depth. A lot of that can be addressed in an offseason with acquisitions in FA/Draft and players getting healthy.

Quote from: MrGap92 on January 02, 2025, 11:03:39 AMIn short, I think they have been severely handicapped by Daniel Jones, in more ways than one. I think Dabolls playcalling and some of the other skill players on this team are better than their stats because of who has been throwing to them. I also think the team has been hurt by injuries yet again, and should seriously consider letting Barnes retire and revamping that medical staff from the top down and then some. This is a serious problem the organization has with injuries.

They still have work to do, but if we can give Jones 6 years, we can give them a 4th.

I also feel like Schoen's first draft gets too much flak, considering his limited time and not having his people fully in place yet. Despite that, that draft was a portion of a team that made the playoffs.

A QB won't fix everything, but if they hit, then having one will make them a lot more respectable and will lessen other needs. The game from IND is a sample of some of what we can see more regularly with having competent QB play more consistently. They still need a RG, Swing, DT and CB, and overall depth. A lot of that can be addressed in an offseason with acquisitions in FA/Draft and players getting healthy.

Agreed.  Jones literally could not complete passes more than 15 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.  That is unheard of in the NFL.  How many times did we see plays on film breakdowns where the receivers WERE open and he just would not throw the ball?  We had Nabers saying how he was open on plays and he wouldnt throw it.  Then, a few weeks later he stepped back saying it was not the QB.  The  hell it wasnt the QB.  It 100% was.  Then, we had some on here saying that because Lock and DeVito were worse that somehow exonerated Jones as the problem.  Nonsense.   Oh, Vikings picked him up for their practice squad.  That must mean he is good.  Yeah, ok.

Quote from: katkavage on January 02, 2025, 10:52:26 AMI'd tell him I think it's a mistake to sign him. They won because of the running back and circumstance. We are happy with the season we had, but we are not fooled that the team still needs much work for it's long term success. My coach, who we hired because he knows QB play, says he needs a QB he can really develop. We just don't see that in Jones despite the good game managing year he had. We like the kid, but it's not the right move for the long term future of the team. You hired me to make these tough evaluations and decisions. This is mine. If we are going to work together in the future you have to trust me on all the player personnel decisions.

   

I like that.

If I'm Mara, my response would be something like this:

Daniel and Saquon proved to be a formidable offensive duo. Daniel ran the offense without having a true #1 receiver or a tight end threat. I'm certain that if he has better receiving weapons, he will continue to improve in Brian's offense. He threw for 300 yards in a playoff game on the road! That's a huge accomplishment that shouldn't be ignored. If he had better offensive weapons, we could have put up a better fight against Philly. He has the right coach; he just needs better receivers. I really believe in this kid and he rewarded my support with the first playoff win in 10 years. He clearly has something that we can win with.

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on January 02, 2025, 10:37:22 AMI am not familiar with potential GM candidates but all I know is that the Commanders found theirs .

There must be people working under the GMS of THe Lions, Vikings, Packers , Chiefs who would be available.

I think that maybe Brandon Brown might be a better choice than Schoen . An AP writer that I am friendly with said that Brown was very instumental in this past year's draft but had little input  in 2023  draft.

Maybe hire a President of Football Operations to head up the team like Dawn Aponte who is Chief Of Football Oerations for the NFL.

The Commanders seem to be part of a trend where the less sexy picks tend to prove to be the better ones.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on January 02, 2025, 09:51:02 AMMy view of the Giants definition of insanity is Mara changing out HC/GM every three years while keeping his thumb in the pie.

He needs to learn that you can't have it both ways.

STOP publicly advocating for a QB who will never be worth what you invested in him. STOP whining on a cable tv show about how you won't sleep at night if your most popular player, a RB ends up playing for a rival.

Your advocating for the QB made it impossible to invest in the RB based on the cap AND lack of talent along the OL. Had they acquiesced to your whining, your RB would have missed at least three games due to injury and would have produced a little offer half of what he's producing now in a best case scenario.

Your coveted QB would look a a little better due to having a great outlet RB to catch his popgun passes and STILL not solve his inability to consistently throw the ball down field. You know, like today's NFL QB's do these days.

I LOVE Barkley and I wanted to keep him. But two things remain true. One, he's in a much better place. Two, he would've had another wasted year here and we would still be in QB HELL.

John, if you're not able to identify the correct HC/GM combination hire a consultant or Better yet, a President of Football Operations to choose them, and then for the millionth time GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY AND LET THEM DO THEIR JOBS!!

I honestly don't know if Schoen/Daboll are the right men for the job, because I haven't seen them run the operation without interference. So I am not invested one way or another whether they stay or go, other than I'm getting a little old to witness them starting from scratch YET AGAIN!


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Very well said Andrew. 👏👏👏👏👏

Quote from: T200 on January 02, 2025, 11:11:58 AM   

I like that.

If I'm Mara, my response would be something like this:

Daniel and Saquon proved to be a formidable offensive duo. Daniel ran the offense without having a true #1 receiver or a tight end threat. I'm certain that if he has better receiving weapons, he will continue to improve in Brian's offense. He threw for 300 yards in a playoff game on the road! That's a huge accomplishment that shouldn't be ignored. If he had better offensive weapons, we could have put up a better fight against Philly. He has the right coach; he just needs better receivers. I really believe in this kid and he rewarded my support with the first playoff win in 10 years. He clearly has something that we can win with.

And I respectfully disagree. My coach who studies QB play sees a hard ceiling for the kid, not to mention he is injury prone. I was taught not to base decisions on performances over one game. I look for consistency and improvement over a sustained period not one game.