Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on September 08, 2024, 04:40:32 PMI repeat, this goes beyond Jones. This is not a talented roster. Take off your Giant glasses and you will recognize that. They have one elite player #97. They have a top ten left tackle. They have a real good kicker. The rest aren't close to pro bowl potential. And the QB has never shown that he can be an elite, much less franchise QB. He just doesn't have the instincts it takes to get to that level. Never has. And when I say it goes beyond the QB, I'm looking at the head coach. He was blessed with some lucky wins in 2022 that painted a better picture than what is real. He never has been a head coach and that shows here. His teams since that good start in 2022 just are not prepared as they should. I'm also looking at the GM who has not drafted well so far. And has stuck with the QB who will take them nowhere. He also hired the head coach (along with the clueless owner). So he owns that as well. Jones is no good, but he's not the only one.

What makes you think anyone here thinks the rest of the roster besides Jones is good? We're talking about Jones here. He's the QB. QB is incredibly important, and ours looks awful. That's what the subject here is.

Obviously there are other problems on the team and in the front office and coaching staff. Respectfully, please free to start a thread about any one of them if you'd like to.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 08, 2024, 04:43:50 PMWhat makes you think anyone here thinks the rest of the roster besides Jones is good? We're talking about Jones here. He's the QB. QB is incredibly important, and ours looks awful. That's what the subject here is.

Obviously there are other problems on the team and in the front office and coaching staff. Respectfully, please free to start a thread about any one of them if you'd like to.

The problem is last year when we screamed about Taylor and Devito moving the ball better, we were slammed and given all sorts of excuses and metrics about why our eyes were wrong.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 08, 2024, 04:43:50 PMWhat makes you think anyone here thinks the rest of the roster besides Jones is good? We're talking about Jones here. He's the QB. QB is incredibly important, and ours looks awful. That's what the subject here is.

Obviously there are other problems on the team and in the front office and coaching staff. Respectfully, please free to start a thread about any one of them if you'd like to.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 08, 2024, 04:43:50 PMWhat makes you think anyone here thinks the rest of the roster besides Jones is good? We're talking about Jones here. He's the QB. QB is incredibly important, and ours looks awful. That's what the subject here is.

Obviously there are other problems on the team and in the front office and coaching staff. Respectfully, please free to start a thread about any one of them if you'd like to.

Because the decision to keep Jones on the team. To give him that contract. To not start a rebuild with a new QB are all related to Jones and the failure of this team. Others made those decisions. What were they thinking?? And how can we trust their judgement if they were so wrong with the most important position on the field?

Quote from: katkavage on September 08, 2024, 04:46:52 PMBecause the decision to keep Jones on the team. To give him that contract. To not start a rebuild with a new QB are all related to Jones and the failure of this team. Others made those decisions. What were they thinking?? And how can we trust their judgement if they were so wrong with the most important position on the field?

And those decision-makers were smart enough to give themselves an out after only 2 years.  In 2022, who else should they have signed?  Like 2021, they weren't in position to draft a QB.  If they signed Carr, Uncle Rico, or JB, they would be in the exact position they are in today They weren't going to do worse than Car, NE or Wash last year. It will start to get better next year, when they address the biggest need...the QB.

Quote from: kingm56 on September 08, 2024, 04:56:13 PMAnd those decision-makers were smart enough to give themselves an out after only 2 years.  In 2022, who else should they have signed?  Like 2021, they weren't in position to draft a QB.  If they signed Carr, Uncle Rico, or JB, they would be in the exact position they are in today They weren't going to do worse than Car, NE or Wash last year. It will start to get better next year, when they address the biggest need...the QB.

Sometimes when you get worse, you ultimately get better. But I get it. The mirage of 2022 blinded all to the reality of the situation. As a fan we can only hope that the decisions start to bear fruit. Including the head coach.

Quote from: katkavage on September 08, 2024, 04:58:49 PMSometimes when you get worse, you ultimately get better. But I get it. The mirage of 2022 blinded all to the reality of the situation. As a fan we can only hope that the decisions start to bear fruit. Including the head coach.

I hear you, Kat!  I'm the guy who wanted a Mia type fire sale three years ago . 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 08, 2024, 03:56:03 PMHe plays the most important position on the Giants, and this is a Giants fan board. And his level of play today is worth talking about, so I think it's justified to start one.

This was an absolute calamity today. I'd like to hear if anyone has any other take other than that Jones was simply awful beyond belief. And unlike last year in week one, this was against a totally manageable, non playoff opponent.

My personal opinion is that this nightmare needs to end. I know they won't bench Jones after this week, but I would seriously consider it if I were these guys. Is Jones definitely better than some of these QBs out there on the street? Have Tannehill or Wentz been signed? I bet there are multiple others that can do a better job than this.

I understand that some will call this a week one overreaction, but the fact that it's only week one is sort of my point. Why let this snowball to 1-5 or 1-7 before making a change? How much more of this are they going to subject the fans to?

Is anyone seeing it differently? Is there any reason I'm missing to expect him to suddenly start playing better?

I think it was appropriate to try and have some balance here going into opening day. That said,

I won't go back three years and pound my chest and yell, I told you so. Ancient history. However,

How does it feel to be a hard core fan, spending the equivalence of months of your life talking Giants Football, while this franchise can't seem to get the ship on course? Do you wonder why I spend more time on the Front Porch than here in the Football Forum? Or why I walked away from my season tickets four years ago? Or why I only went to two training camps this year? I'm fucking disgusted.

Schoen gave up on Barkley, McKinney and Engram. But he failed to fix the Oline until year three and he put his chips on a QB who perhaps through mismanagement became Shell Shocked and was never able to elevate his skills. Slow to read the field and now skittish of the pass rush and of making mistakes, so he has no confidence in himself anymore.

Now if they keep him in and he gets hurt, they have to carry him another year whether he plays or not. When it was apparent to any competent HC that Lock wasn't a suitable replacement which Rich and I saw after one practice, Schoen did nothing. Daboll once again failed to get this team ready for the home opener on the historic 100 year anniversary.

I'm sure Carl Banks and the rest of the alumni will call for a pause. I love em and respect em, but stop with the gaslighting guys. We are fed up.

Quote from: kingm56 on September 08, 2024, 04:56:13 PMAnd those decision-makers were smart enough to give themselves an out after only 2 years.  In 2022, who else should they have signed?  Like 2021, they weren't in position to draft a QB.  If they signed Carr, Uncle Rico, or JB, they would be in the exact position they are in today They weren't going to do worse than Car, NE or Wash last year. It will start to get better next year, when they address the biggest need...the QB.

Mara kind of tied their hands with his public support of Jones. While he may have never directly mandated Jones, he made it as clear as possible in manager-ese that Jones should be resigned and built around.

I think the correct decision would have been to franchise Jones and make him do it (whatever it really was) again before paying him.

Quote from: AYM on September 08, 2024, 05:27:33 PMMara kind of tied their hands with his public support of Jones. While he may have never directly mandated Jones, he made it as clear as possible in manager-ese that Jones should be resigned and built around.

I think the correct decision would have been to franchise Jones and make him do it (whatever it really was) again before paying him.

Franchising Jones would have been the right move, but it likely would have precluded keeping Barkley given they didn't want to sign him to the contract he wanted.

Now that Barkley is gone and we're no better, I don't think anyone would have an issue with that now in hindsight, but the 2022 season was a breath of fresh air for a franchise and fan-based that were desperately starved for anything positive. A 9-7-1 season and a playoff win, while pedestrian for a lot of teams in the league, was like winning a Super Bowl for this community that year. So it would have been very hard to completely let Barkley walk. Which probably would have been the only realistic outcome if they had tagged Jones.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 08, 2024, 05:30:54 PMFranchising Jones would have been the right move, but it likely would have precluded keeping Barkley given they didn't want to sign him to the contract he wanted.

Now that Barkley is gone and we're no better, I don't think anyone would have an issue with that now in hindsight, but the 2022 season was a breath of fresh air for a franchise and fan-based that were desperately starved for anything positive. A 9-7-1 season and a playoff win, while pedestrian for a lot of teams in the league, was like winning a Super Bowl for this community that year. So it would have been very hard to completely let Barkley walk. Which probably would have been the only realistic outcome if they had tagged Jones.

True. An even more radical move would've been to franchise Barkley and let Jones test the free agent market, especially if you believed that he is, well, what he's shown himself to be. But the problem is Mara made it clear Jones should be resigned.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 08, 2024, 03:56:03 PMHe plays the most important position on the Giants, and this is a Giants fan board. And his level of play today is worth talking about, so I think it's justified to start one.

This was an absolute calamity today. I'd like to hear if anyone has any other take other than that Jones was simply awful beyond belief. And unlike last year in week one, this was against a totally manageable, non playoff opponent.

My personal opinion is that this nightmare needs to end. I know they won't bench Jones after this week, but I would seriously consider it if I were these guys. Is Jones definitely better than some of these QBs out there on the street? Have Tannehill or Wentz been signed? I bet there are multiple others that can do a better job than this.

I understand that some will call this a week one overreaction, but the fact that it's only week one is sort of my point. Why let this snowball to 1-5 or 1-7 before making a change? How much more of this are they going to subject the fans to?

Is anyone seeing it differently? Is there any reason I'm missing to expect him to suddenly start playing better?

Need to stick with Jones all year. Why? Because the Giants gave him the contract...let the chips fall where they fall. I don't like the Giants paying him so much to sit. Is Lock the guy? Is DeVito the guy? NO. Let Jones play, and if he sucks, then the record will reflect it. Bad record means high pick, Jones' play will cost him his job and help the Giants get their guy. Having a 6-11 season does nothing (if we play Lock or DeVito) assuming they can do better.

If they are moving on, isn't his contract protected for injury? So if he got injured, they'd be on the hook for the whole thing next year?

If that's the case, I don't see them jeopardising the 18m dead hit (no small change either) to get out the contract. His leash is really short.

Quote from: AYM on September 08, 2024, 05:33:28 PMTrue. An even more radical move would've been to franchise Barkley and let Jones test the free agent market, especially if you believed that he is, well, what he's shown himself to be. But the problem is Mara made it clear Jones should be resigned.

Absolutely true.

But as we both know, the above would have meant not overrating our own talent, which as we know is a tendency that both the organization and much of its fan base seem incapable of resisting.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on September 08, 2024, 05:37:40 PMIf they are moving on, isn't his contract protected for injury? So if he got injured, they'd be on the hook for the whole thing next year?

If that's the case, I don't see them jeopardising the 18m dead hit (no small change either) to get out the contract. His leash is really short.

It is, Ed.  If he plays like this next week, I think he gets the hook.  The Giants aren't going to mess around with that injury clause. 

Quote from: kingm56 on September 08, 2024, 05:41:07 PMIt is, Ed.  If he plays like this next week, I think he gets the hook.  The Giants aren't going to mess around with that injury clause. 

They absolutely should not.